2013 Toronto Blue Jays

[TranaGreg]

... And frankly, while the major league manager is responsible on one level, he shouldn't have to be the one to teach the players how to play the game. They're in the major leagues, and by the time they arrive, they should have been taught along the way and should know how.

I generally agree with you, but what do you do as manager when they don't hit the cutoff men, or fail to move runners over when needed, or don't run ground balls out, or, or, or ...; shrug your shoulders, or do something about it. Not much doing about it here, certainly nothing visible to the fans.

[Don Quixote]

I generally agree with you, but what do you do as manager when they don't hit the cutoff men, or fail to move runners over when needed, or don't run ground balls out, or, or, or ...; shrug your shoulders, or do something about it. Not much doing about it here, certainly nothing visible to the fans.

As I said, "on one level". He shouldn't have to teach them how to do it, but he should have the inclination to teach them that not doing or doing wrong has consequences. That's where Gibbons and other "players' managers" are in the wrong IMO--they don't penalize players for their failure to do baseball basics some of us learned in grade school.

[cavebird]

As I said, "on one level". He shouldn't have to teach them how to do it, but he should have the inclination to teach them that not doing or doing wrong has consequences. That's where Gibbons and other "players' managers" are in the wrong IMO--they don't penalize players for their failure to do baseball basics some of us learned in grade school.

That's a bit of an over-generalization though, isn't it? Bobby Cox was always known as a players' manager (he certainly wasn't known as a tactical genius, lol), but when Andruw Jones was young, he'd get to take a seat about once a month because he screwed up an easy play because he was showboating.

[Don Quixote]

That's a bit of an over-generalization though, isn't it? Bobby Cox was always known as a players' manager (he certainly wasn't known as a tactical genius, lol), but when Andruw Jones was young, he'd get to take a seat about once a month because he screwed up an easy play because he was showboating.

I'm not saying there's any correlation, but despite the legend, Bobby only won one World Series with all the talent he managed. I never thought of him as a "players' manager", because he could be a hard-a** when necessary. I'm thinking in terms of a lot of failed managers and some current ones, such as the one here in Cincy, who just won't get off their butts and chew out or bench a player who's making mistakes a high schooler would be sitting for.

[cavebird]

I'm not saying there's any correlation, but despite the legend, Bobby only won one World Series with all the talent he managed. I never thought of him as a "players' manager", because he could be a hard-a** when necessary. I'm thinking in terms of a lot of failed managers and some current ones, such as the one here in Cincy, who just won't get off their butts and chew out or bench a player who's making mistakes a high schooler would be sitting for.

Maybe we just have different definitions of what it is to be a players' manager---mine are probably influenced for hearing how much of a players' manager Bobby was for the last 20 years.

[Don Quixote]

Maybe we just have different definitions of what it is to be a players' manager---mine are probably influenced for hearing how much of a players' manager Bobby was for the last 20 years.

My perception of Bobby Cox is somewhere in the middle, that he was a manager who would go to the wall for his players AND expected a lot from them, and that for the most part he had players who respected that. I think the guys I see as "players' managers" are the type who always make excuses for their players' failures and eventually lose their jobs because of those failures.

[virgonomic]

Mark Buehrle is 1-6 against the AL East and 10-1 against the rest of MLB. Set your lineups accordingly.