Liriano to the Yanks Rumour?

[Bob Kohm]

If they don't then maybe they should be contracted--- right after the Rays are moved to a city that will support them with more than 1700 people in the stands for a Sunday afternoon game against their betters

[GwynnInTheHall]

If they don't then maybe they should be contracted--- right after the Rays are moved to a city that will support them with more than 1700 people in the stands for a Sunday afternoon game against their bitters

fixed

[Bob Kohm]

fixed

Are the Padres playing this year?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Are the Padres playing this year?

probably not well

[Moonlight J]

That's so tired, Jason. Liriano is in no way Johan Santana given the injury history, even if Santana's post-trade career might be instructional in determining what to expect from a guy with a bad arm like Liriano. What perhaps you (and ElDiablo...) need to understand is that when medical track records come into play, value is impacted. The risk is far too high to pay anything close to full freight on this guy, especially when that full price is a player who everyone sees as being hugely impactful over the coming decade. Look at it this way-- would you have traded a prospect like Longoria for this guy?

Any more tired than Rays attendance jokes?

The Twins have one more year of control with Liriano now than they did when the gave away Santana to the Mets for overrated crap - which is the same mess tat is being proposed here. Liriano is a lock to return 2 1st rd draft picks when he walks so the club can balance the risk of him getting hurt in the next 2 years (which also affects his trade value) and balance out whether they move him at a risk discount or ride it out and collect the 2 first rounders when he walks (if that is even part of the CBA after the 2012 season).

Please don't compare Longoria and Montero in the same sentence. One is a franchise player and the most valuable player in the American League bWAR wise over the past three seasons because he's a supreme defender and a very above average hitter while Montero is mostly bat and the Yankees, or whoever will own him in the future, have to find somewhere to play his problems behind the dish. As Kevin Goldstein said, "Despite all of his work, Montero remains a well below-average catcher, and someone who just isn't designed to play to position. He's a poor receiver who handcuffs balls, he has trouble blocking pitches in the dirt, and his arm strength is mitigated by the amount of time it takes his immense frame to get out of a crouch and release the ball." That's not going to play behind the plate and he is blocked in the Yankees organization until Jorge retires. His defensive struggles will discount how much his bat will help the team and as a trade partner, I would leverage that against the Yankees and force them to play him at catcher or DH which is a mistake for younger talent like him.

[Porcello]

Bob's just screaming of a homer, I can't fathom how the Twins would accept any trade not involving Jesus. Maybe Gary Sanchez, but I think that's reaching too. Joba is a good reliever and most likely a failed starter, Nova's a #3 at best and more likely a long reliever/5th starter. What else do they have as far as prospects? Brandon Laird? Either of the catchers make sense because I think they're going to try to move Mauer out from behind the dish sooner rather than later to try and preserve him through as much of his contract as possible.

[In the Corn]

There was a really good article in the Star Tribune about the Twins trading Liriano about a month ago. The writer laid out the whole idea of injury risk vs. high salary and made the case why the Twins would be willing to move Liriano. There is little chance the Twins would make this move prior to the season as that would signal to the fans one of two things:

1. We're good enough and don't need him.
2. We are not planning on contending this year.

Neither of these will play to the fans as they are anticipating a winner this year. I think the Twins would love to see what Kyle Gibson can do, and if he can be as good as they think, they would think about trading Liriano at the end of the season. However, the Twins do love the 1st round draft picks.

[TopChuckie]

I know this is a foreign concept to Yankees fans, but you have to give something to get something

It wasn't Yankees fans who proposed Nova and Joba though. We're just reacting to the report. Sure, "other pieces" could mean top prospects, but then wouldn't "in addition to top prospects" make for a juicier story?

If only the Yanks had a Victor Zambrano to offer the Twins.

[Hornsby]

It's VERY unlikly to happen without Montero being involved, for all of the reasons already outlined. It's NOT the same situation as Santana, and the Twins are not in a bind to deal him. They will happily trade him in the right deal, but it's going to be a deal that they're pretty damn sure that they win,they're still smarting from fallout from the Johan deal. Ivan freaking Nova and Fatty Chamberlain ain't gonna cut it.

[Sour Masher]

It's VERY unlikly to happen without Montero being involved, for all of the reasons already outlined. It's NOT the same situation as Santana, and the Twins are not in a bind to deal him. They will happily trade him in the right deal, but it's going to be a deal that they're pretty damn sure that they win,they're still smarting from fallout from the Johan deal. Ivan freaking Nova and Fatty Chamberlain ain't gonna cut it.

It may be unlikely, but the Yankees have the minor league pieces to make a deal happen without giving Montero. I could see the Twins warm to the idea of Manny Banuelos and/or Gary Sanchez being the centerpiece of a deal. It would make sense for Brandon Laird to be tossed into a deal as well. If they think they can get another 3-4 years out of Mauer behind the plate, Gary Sanchez might be a very good fit in a deal.

I could see the Twins trading Liriano for Gary Sanchez, Brandon Laird, Joba, and Nova. If I were a Yankee fan, I'd be very happy to get an elite arm. If I were a Twins fan (I do like them from afar), I wouldn't like them giving Liriano, but I wouldn't feel bad about this haul.

And if the Yankees really want Liriano and don't want to give Montero, they could give Banueloos instead of Nova. I'd be surprised if the Twins didn't take an offer of Joba, Sanchez, Banuelos, and Laird. Some Yankee fans might call that too much, but Joba is next to worthless for the Yankees, so is Laird, Sanchez is years away and still mostly projection, and Banuelos is undersized. Still, that is a lot of talent to get back for the Twins, if they want to move Liriano.

[Hornsby]

It may be unlikely, but the Yankees have the minor league pieces to make a deal happen without giving Montero. I could see the Twins warm to the idea of Manny Banuelos and/or Gary Sanchez being the centerpiece of a deal. It would make sense for Brandon Laird to be tossed into a deal as well. If they think they can get another 3-4 years out of Mauer behind the plate, Gary Sanchez might be a very good fit in a deal.

I could see the Twins trading Liriano for Gary Sanchez, Brandon Laird, Joba, and Nova. If I were a Yankee fan, I'd be very happy to get an elite arm. If I were a Twins fan (I do like them from afar), I wouldn't like them giving Liriano, but I wouldn't feel bad about this haul.

And if the Yankees really want Liriano and don't want to give Montero, they could give Banueloos instead of Nova. I'd be surprised if the Twins didn't take an offer of Joba, Sanchez, Banuelos, and Laird. Some Yankee fans might call that too much, but Joba is next to worthless for the Yankees, so is Laird, Sanchez is years away and still mostly projection, and Banuelos is undersized. Still, that is a lot of talent to get back for the Twins, if they want to move Liriano.

If the Yankees are willing to give up Sanchez, Banuelos, and Chamberlain, I think that the Twins would take that deal. But I really can't see the Yankees giving up that much, especially seeing some of their former prospects succeed around the majors. Then again, flags fly forever, and Liriano would make the rotation formidable, no matter who's slotted in the 5th spot.

[Erik]

If the Twins trade Liriano to the Yankees and do not get Montero, they should be contracted.

But they traded Santana to the Mets, did not get Fernando Martinez, and were not contracted. And the sentiment at the time was that they should have been.

[Bob Kohm]

It's VERY unlikly to happen without Montero being involved, for all of the reasons already outlined. It's NOT the same situation as Santana, and the Twins are not in a bind to deal him. They will happily trade him in the right deal, but it's going to be a deal that they're pretty damn sure that they win,they're still smarting from fallout from the Johan deal. Ivan freaking Nova and Fatty Chamberlain ain't gonna cut it.

Talk about a "homer" viewpoint, lol.

Here's reality-- this is a Jim Bowden comment of a Bob Nightengale quip that looks as much opinion as legit rumour. The fact is that Cashman has absolutely no interest in the Twins' bad deal for Johan Santanna-- not his problem although it is pretty ironic that he largely created that problem for the bad Twins' front office management. Now, whether the Twins feel tremendous pressure over their failure to get more for Johan than they did or not has again little to do with whether the Yankees will overpay for Liriano-- and let's be honest, that's what we're all talking about, the Twins extracting "maximum value" for a talented but injury prone starter who has never gotten along with team management and whom they've openly questioned. Jesus Montero is ranked by just about every credible source as a top three to five prospect, he's Major League ready and this silliness about his position makes marginal difference given his bat, which looks as though it will play as exceptional at any position. Yes, yes, he's even more extraordinary from the catcher's position... but how much are we degrading the value of Eric Hosmer for playing a 1B spot rather than, say CF or SS? How far do we degrade the value of Bryce Harper for being a corner outfielder?

Were the Twins to get two MLB ready prospects like Nova and Laird plus a younger guy (not named Sanchez) they'd objectively have done well for Liriano given his risks, but convincing the fans of that would be impossible.

Now, whether there is even the possibility of a Liriano - Yankees trade is unknown and while the Yankees will be looking to patch the back of their rotation throughout the season Liriano isn't by any realistic measure the only game in town nor even a necessary piece for the Yankees to succeed given their offense, bullpen and front of their rotation. I would say that much of this, at least here, is driven by Twin fans and the healthy community of Yankee detractors who love to pat each other on the back and think they always make sense In the end, I'll be surprised if Liriano becomes a Yankee given his issues and the politics of the move amongst Twins fans (as ITC pointed out) as the Yankees are simply very unlikely to pay an exorbitant price for him and the Twins will be embarrassed by their fans if they can't extract one. Expect this to be the ongoing rumour through the deadline.

[Bob Kohm]

Any more tired than Rays attendance jokes?

The Twins have one more year of control with Liriano now than they did when the gave away Santana to the Mets for overrated crap - which is the same mess tat is being proposed here. Liriano is a lock to return 2 1st rd draft picks when he walks so the club can balance the risk of him getting hurt in the next 2 years (which also affects his trade value) and balance out whether they move him at a risk discount or ride it out and collect the 2 first rounders when he walks (if that is even part of the CBA after the 2012 season).

Assuming that his arm is after 2012 what it was at the end of a 2010 that everyone thought was somewhat surprising given his medical history, yes? Elias "Type A" rankings don't often accrue to guys who have missed a large part of his walk year on the DL, after all.

[quote]Please don't compare Longoria and Montero in the same sentence. One is a franchise player and the most valuable player in the American League bWAR wise over the past three seasons because he's a supreme defender and a very above average hitter while Montero is mostly bat and the Yankees, or whoever will own him in the future, have to find somewhere to play his problems behind the dish.

Longoria is an exceptional player whose prospect write ups closely mirrored Montero's; they don;t belong in the same sentence based on where they were in their respective "last prospect" years? Oh please.

As Kevin Goldstein said, "Despite all of his work, Montero remains a well below-average catcher, and someone who just isn't designed to play to position. He's a poor receiver who handcuffs balls, he has trouble blocking pitches in the dirt, and his arm strength is mitigated by the amount of time it takes his immense frame to get out of a crouch and release the ball." That's not going to play behind the plate and he is blocked in the Yankees organization until Jorge retires. His defensive struggles will discount how much his bat will help the team and as a trade partner, I would leverage that against the Yankees and force them to play him at catcher or DH which is a mistake for younger talent like him.

[Hornsby]

Talk about a "homer" viewpoint, lol.

Here's reality-- this is a Jim Bowden comment of a Bob Nightengale quip that looks as much opinion as legit rumour. The fact is that Cashman has absolutely no interest in the Twins' bad deal for Johan Santanna-- not his problem although it is pretty ironic that he largely created that problem for the bad Twins' front office management. Now, whether the Twins feel tremendous pressure over their failure to get more for Johan than they did or not has again little to do with whether the Yankees will overpay for Liriano-- and let's be honest, that's what we're all talking about, the Twins extracting "maximum value" for a talented but injury prone starter who has never gotten along with team management and whom they've openly questioned. Jesus Montero is ranked by just about every credible source as a top three to five prospect, he's Major League ready and this silliness about his position makes marginal difference given his bat, which looks as though it will play as exceptional at any position. Yes, yes, he's even more extraordinary from the catcher's position... but how much are we degrading the value of Eric Hosmer for playing a 1B spot rather than, say CF or SS? How far do we degrade the value of Bryce Harper for being a corner outfielder?

Were the Twins to get two MLB ready prospects like Nova and Laird plus a younger guy (not named Sanchez) they'd objectively have done well for Liriano given his risks, but convincing the fans of that would be impossible.

Now, whether there is even the possibility of a Liriano - Yankees trade is unknown and while the Yankees will be looking to patch the back of their rotation throughout the season Liriano isn't by any realistic measure the only game in town nor even a necessary piece for the Yankees to succeed given their offense, bullpen and front of their rotation. I would say that much of this, at least here, is driven by Twin fans and the healthy community of Yankee detractors who love to pat each other on the back and think they always make sense In the end, I'll be surprised if Liriano becomes a Yankee given his issues and the politics of the move amongst Twins fans (as ITC pointed out) as the Yankees are simply very unlikely to pay an exorbitant price for him and the Twins will be embarrassed by their fans if they can't extract one. Expect this to be the ongoing rumour through the deadline.

No sh!t Sherlock...yup that is a homer comment, you figured me out.

Here's where you're wrong, again, on several fronts. Nova is not a front line prospect, nor is Laird. BA profiles him as in the "Kevin Kouzmanoff Mode", not thanks. He's a nice player, not a great player, and it'll take great player to get Liriano, someone who has PROVEN himself to be elite at the major league level, and is still in his 20's despite having TJ surgery. You think the Yanks don't want to give up elite prospects? Too bad...that's the price that they'll have to pay, no matter if it's Lirano, Carpenter, or another top 30 starter. You pay, you get, you don't pay, you get nothing. Much like Colon, Garcia, and the rest of the dross that are now filling in the last couple of spots in the Yankee rotation.

You think the Twins fans are putting pressure on their front office to make a deal? Wait until the season starts and the 3-4-5 starters of the Yanks are getting blown up, which is a very strong possibility...think the back pages of the Tabs won't be going insane then?

And again, you're right about something...it's nothing more than rumor being batted about at this point...and that is EXACTLY why the Twins don't have to do anything. There is no pressure to deal Liriano for a bag of magic beans, ala Santana. They have those 2 1st rounders sitting out there that they'll be more than happy to take as compensation.