trade offer techniques

[swampdragon]

All of us have complaints about ridiculous offers (and have probably made ones ourselves)

So how many of us are fishing to see if we are in the right ballpark? or making a legit offer right off the bat?

I am pretty confident that I rarely have received a straightforward offer and taken it as it stood.

[Gregg]

I try to make an offer that I myself would accept if it was turned around.

Where I have the most disconnects is regarding how I value rookies vs others.

[dslaw]

A couple of times I have received an offer that I thought I had to accept before the other guy changed his mind. Usually offers I get are like those I send - they seem low ball but could be accepted and they are at least worth a counter. I did go with a high offer for Harper earlier this but the guy said it was a decent offer but he wasn't moving Harper. That is fine, I won't move Verlander for what any sane owner would offer so I understand.

[revo]

If I have depth or want to move a certain player, I'll look at everyone's roster and see if they have a need for that guy. There's nothing more irritating than getting an offer from someone who couldn't even take a minute to see if I had a need for that player.

I'm usually not a big game hunter unless my team is in the toilet, so I usually look for undervalued players or players of similar value to the guy I'm offering who I have a need for. Then I'll float out four or five unsolicited offers, and usually I'll find interest with one team.

I also scan everyone's roster to see who's riding the bench for them, and if I would have any interest in those guys. I'll then try and make unsolicited bids for those guys too.

I'll post an OTB just to make sure I cover all my bases, and hey, sometimes someone makes you an offer you can't refuse too!

[cool hand]

this is an interesting concept, partly because people vary so greatly on it. it's one that i tend to struggle with.

i personally tend to labor over a trade offer well in advance of actually sending it. by the time i send an offer to another owner, i typically will have analyzed it, scrutinized it, and tweaked it to death until i feel it is totally acceptable for both sides. i rarely make an imbalanced offer. shockingly - it's typically not immediately "acceptable".

one of the areas that i tend to have trouble with is in making an assumption, one that i believe to be intrinsic to human nature, that other people think similarly to the way that i think. the reality is - if you send a ready-made offer to an owner that likes to haggle, he will immediately assume that you've sent an "opening" offer, and go from there. he's doing this because he assumes that you think like he does. i rarely do this, although i am aware that there are plenty of owners who take the "if you throw enough **** at the wall, some of it is bound to stick..." approach. those owners, quite naturally, assume that you do the same. and in between my personal style, and the "goin fishin" style, there are an infinite strata of approaches as well.

i also think that some people have a natural affinity for the trading process. over time, you might see the same owner in a league that has great success at making trades with people, based solely on volume. some people have a knack for it. these are the people that fascinate me, and i think it's important to learn from them when they offer you a deal. how are they structuring their own introduction to trading with you? how do they go about tweaking the offer to fit? do they start low and move to high? do they start high, and then express cold feet to garner more interest? do they start with an offer at all, or just express an interest in a certain player and allow you to make the first actual "offer"?

the whole thing is a deep topic. personally, my long term leagues tend to trade infrequently. owners have a distinct tendency to overvalue their own players, or develop man-love for them, and this tends to stymie productive trading. i think, in general, you've got to approach it on a case by case basis with the tendencies you've gleaned from other owners over the years. ie, haggle with the hagglers, send good offers to the straight forward folks, if you can determine who's who, that is...

[Jefe]

I will occasionally over a very slight lowball first offer. Like, 1 guy in the deal being one tier down. But I often will lead with my best offer, one that I think has the potential to help both teams. When those fall through it's usually b/c we don't agree on certain players' performance levels moving forward.

Some owners I'll have a 20-email exchange before we can agree on something. Some I just make the offer and the site and see what happens. It varies.

I did accept an unsolicited 1-1 offer this year. Haven't done that much, for certain. I just accepted a counter offer that's been sitting on the site for week. Finally decided I'd take the gamble.

The only years I've ever dumped for keepers I've been willing to overpay to get what I wanted.

[wannabegriffey]

I tend to do a lot of what is suggested in early responses:

1/ review all rosters and make offers to teams which seem to fit with what I need

2 make a good fair offer for both sides

[Controller Jacobs]

I usually point out the downsides to the guy I'm offering offer, along with the upsides. Saves the other guy some research and lets him know I'm flexible to other trades.

[Lucky]

I made a trade today that fairly well illustrates my approach. Research revealed an owner with a very strong offense, but terrible pitching. I contacted him, asking if he would consider dealing a hitter to upgrade his pitching staff. Once he said yes, he was interested, I started working on offers. I sent him three different offers at the same time, any of which I would have been happy with. He accepted one of them. As luck would have it, the offer he accepted was the one I liked the best for my side.

I think there is value in sending more than one offer. In most cases, one of those offers will look good, especially as compared to the other offer(s).

I also like the multiple choice approach. If I want a certain person on his roster, I might say which of these four players would you take straight up? Or if I know that he wants a certain person from me, I may ask him to send me a list of three or four or five players he would trade for the player he has targeted.

Because of the wide variations in how owners value players, I like to put in as much flexibility as possible. What I hate are those guys who are convinced that they are going to trade me a player I just don't want, and make offer after offer which involves me getting that guy I don't want.

[onejayhawk]

Lucky has a point. I think giving the other guy options is almost always helpful. They get a sense of control which allows for more of the trust needed to pull the trigger. In my experience, the other guy tends to accept the offer I like best for my own team.

J

[revo]

there's also a lot of value in coming high.

Everyone seems to believe lowballing is the way to go, but I don't get it. If I get a real lowball offer, there isn't a chance in hell I'm countering -- I'm thinking this owner is out of touch with reality and values his own players WAY too highly, so it will be a colossal waste of time.

If you're making an offer, please don't assume the other guy is clueless. Please. That's just a waste of everyone's time, and you may end up as message board fodder.

[onejayhawk]

there's also a lot of value in coming high.

Everyone seems to believe lowballing is the way to go, but I don't get it. If I get a real lowball offer, there isn't a chance in hell I'm countering -- I'm thinking this owner is out of touch with reality and values his own players WAY too highly, so it will be a colossal waste of time.

If you're making an offer, please don't assume the other guy is clueless. Please. That's just a waste of everyone's time, and you may end up as message board fodder.

That is the balance. If the offer is not reasonable at first, you dont get a response. On the other hand, you NEED room to come up. That's why I like Lucky's approach of multiple offers. Even if one is fairly unreasonable, the others give your guy wiggle room, so he doesnt feel forced.

I will also note that some guys will not make a reasonable offer for fear that you might take it. A good trade should be agony.

J

[Hammer]

I rarely send offers without having a conversation first. I dont like guessing what you think your needs are and who you like or dislike. In the times i do go blind and send an offer my thought process varies from lowballing to making legit opening offers. I am a high volume trader so its worked well in terms of getting deals done.