Help with an NL OnlyTrade

[BuckyBuckner]

In my 13 team NL only league I have JJ Putz at $22. Along with Cole Hamels at $28 (option year so he's just a one year guy cause $32 is too much) he's probably my only keeper. So I am looking to move both players for cheaper guys that I can keep for longer.

It's a standard 5x5 (with K/IP instead of K) league and we draft 10 pitchers.

One team is interested in Putz but never really makes me an offer, he has a ton of keepers, way more than the 12 we can keep but he just seems to be stingy and doesn't want to give up much.

I need your help in deciding what is fair value for Putz. Here are the players he can keep along with his minor leaguers:

Name	Tm	Sal	Cont
Buster Posey	SF	10	B
[b]Miguel Montero	Ari	7	C12[/b]
[b]Chase Utley	Phi	16	A[/b]
[b]Starlin Castro	ChC	10	B[/b]
Allen Craig	StL	2	B
Domonic Brown	Phi	5	B
[b]John Mayberry	Phi	3	A[/b]
Tyler Colvin	Col	3	B
Eric Young Jr.	Col	3	B
[b]Adam Wainwright	StL	10	A[/b]
Aroldis Chapman	Cin	10	A
[b]Cory Luebke	SD	2	A[/b]
David Hernandez	Ari	3	A
Dillon Gee	NYM	3	F
Esmil Rogers	Col	1	A
[b]Johnny Cueto	Cin	8	A[/b]
[b]Kenley Jansen	LAD	5	A[/b]
Mike Leake	Cin	3	A
Mike Minor	Atl	10	A
[B]Stephen Strasburg	Was	10	B[/b]
Wilton Lopez	Hou	2	A
			
Chris Marrero	Was	10	M
Chris Owings	Ari	3	M
Jiovanni Mier	Hou	10	M
Christian Yelich	Fla	3	M
Gerrit Cole	Pit	5	M
Stetson Allie	Pit	10	M

A = 1st year, B = second year (can he long termed), F = add $5 to single digit and can only be kept one year, C = already signed to contract and it ends the year listed.

I've bolded the guys that I'm pretty sure he won't trade. We've thrown names like Chapman and Allen Craig around. I really want Luebke because I drafted him last year but I don't think he wants to trade him (can't blame him). I've lost some interest in Craig since I don't know if I want to long term him anymore, sure $7 for two years is pretty good but you don't build your team around him. I like Chapman (I drafted him as a ML) but I want more since he's really a crap shoot at this point.

Also, he has too many minor leaguers and draft picks so I am thinking he should be including one of those, I know he won't trade Cole or Yelich.

So have at it. What would you take for Putz?

Thanks

[Gregg]

I would ask him if he wants Putz. Then I would tell him you have too many keepers. I would then tell him the price for Putz is two players and ask for a list that I could choose 2 players to complete the trade.

[Hammer]

Ideally, Posey would be great. Leake and either Cole or Allie is a solid offer IMO.

[willthethrill]

I don't see Chapman as more than a $1 player this year.

Gregg has a nice approach to the negotiations. Another way would be, "give me a list of 10 untouchables and I'll choose 4 from what's left. You then choose the 2 that I get."

[BuckyBuckner]

Ideally, Posey would be great. Leake and either Cole or Allie is a solid offer IMO.

I like Posey but my hesitation is that he would require a long term contract. I feel like that limits his value. It doesn't make sense for me to trade for him and keep him for $10 for just this year.

I do like Gregg's idea but so far the closest he has come to making an offer was "Craig, PLUS???" I think I'll try that approach and see what happens.

[BuckyBuckner]

I don't see Chapman as more than a $1 player this year.

I agree that Chapman won't have much value this year but I'm looking for 2013 and beyond.

Gregg has a nice approach to the negotiations. Another way would be, "give me a list of 10 untouchables and I'll choose 4 from what's left. You then choose the 2 that I get."

That's a pretty good idea too.

[Hammer]

I like Posey but my hesitation is that he would require a long term contract. I feel like that limits his value. It doesn't make sense for me to trade for him and keep him for $10 for just this year.

I do like Gregg's idea but so far the closest he has come to making an offer was "Craig, PLUS???" I think I'll try that approach and see what happens.

Why cant you keep Posey just for this year? Its not like youre giving up anything long term.

[BuckyBuckner]

Why cant you keep Posey just for this year? Its not like youre giving up anything long term.

Because going into the draft with a keeper list of:

Buster Posey $10C12
Sean Marshall $3B

is not that smart. I'm not winning this year, there is no chance in this league. You need a good keeper list to have a chance, I don't. I'm trading for the future, 2011 is not the future. Also, Putz can be kept for 2011 and 2012 at $22, so in a way, yes I am giving up something for the future. Furthermore, I should look to receive something that can be kept for the future instead of settling for someone I keep just this year. I don't see any logic in that.

[Hammer]

Because going into the draft with a keeper list of:

Buster Posey $10C12
Sean Marshall $3B

is not that smart. I'm not winning this year, there is no chance in this league. You need a good keeper list to have a chance, I don't. I'm trading for the future, 2011 is not the future. Also, Putz can be kept for 2011 and 2012 at $22, so in a way, yes I am giving up something for the future. Furthermore, I should look to receive something that can be kept for the future instead of settling for someone I keep just this year. I don't see any logic in that.

suit yourself but I would prefer Posey either at $10 and trade him to a contender during the season or at 15 for 2k13 than Putz at 22.

[BuckyBuckner]

suit yourself but I would prefer Posey either at $10 and trade him to a contender during the season or at 15 for 2k13 than Putz at 22.

I didn't mean to come off so testy there. Sorry about that. I suppose Posey would be better in a vacuum but for me, I'm looking to maximize what I can get for the future and Posey (especially if you don't extending him) isn't the best fit for that. That's why I'm exploring other options. If he's the best I can get then it's not a bad deal. However, extending him to $15C13 is good. I was under the impression that you wouldn't do that. But I guess my hesitation is that there's a limit on how low you keep him. If I can trade for a guy that isn't in his option year I can then keep him longer.

[Hammer]

I didn't mean to come off so testy there. Sorry about that. I suppose Posey would be better in a vacuum but for me, I'm looking to maximize what I can get for the future and Posey (especially if you don't extending him) isn't the best fit for that. That's why I'm exploring other options. If he's the best I can get then it's not a bad deal. However, extending him to $15C13 is good. I was under the impression that you wouldn't do that. But I guess my hesitation is that there's a limit on how low you keep him. If I can trade for a guy that isn't in his option year I can then keep him longer.

no worries. I wasnt offended.

I prolly would extend him one year as it not only protects me for a 2013 run but it increases his trade value a bit as he isnt just a 3 month rental.

[BuckyBuckner]

I got very busy with other things and never really had any talks with this owner. So I sent an email to the league and he made me an offer.

Stetson Allie $10M, A Chapman $10A, Mike Minor $10A, W. Lopez $2A, A Craig $3B and 8th overall minor league pick for

Putz $22A and Aramis Ramirez $25A

I'm not overwhelmed

Another owner offered me Stauffer $10A, McDonald $10A, and Kelly $10M for Putz.

Still not overwhelmed but at least I have some offers to work off.

The thing the first guy doesn't really understand (or wants to ignore) is that if you have 15 keepers (where you can only keep 12) and are looking for one better keeper you really can't offer Nos. 12 - 15 from your list and expect that to work. Wilton Lopez is useless, Myers is the closer and Houston goes to the AL next year. Stetson Allie seems to have dropped from most of the lists. Minor is solid, but might not even get a rotation spot this year. We all know Chapman is a huge question mark. I have a feeling that with his upside he could go for more than $10 so I'm interested in him but not in love with him. I like Allen Craig but I'm not sure his upside and contract are the most desirable. It's clearly a quantity over quality but it's something to work with. I feel like he's throwing in all the guys that could be sweeteners in a deal but I'm not getting the substance. What do you guys think?

As for the other deal, it's also some question marks, I like both those pitchers but they aren't exactly bargains. He has Arodys Vizcaino $3A that I'd be very interested in getting and Madison Bumgarner $10B but I don't think I have what it takes to get him.

[joncarlos]

I got very busy with other things and never really had any talks with this owner. So I sent an email to the league and he made me an offer.

Stetson Allie $10M, A Chapman $10A, Mike Minor $10A, W. Lopez $2A, A Craig $3B and 8th overall minor league pick for

Putz $22A and Aramis Ramirez $25A

I'm not overwhelmed

Another owner offered me Stauffer $10A, McDonald $10A, and Kelly $10M for Putz.

Still not overwhelmed but at least I have some offers to work off.

The thing the first guy doesn't really understand (or wants to ignore) is that if you have 15 keepers (where you can only keep 12) and are looking for one better keeper you really can't offer Nos. 12 - 15 from your list and expect that to work. Wilton Lopez is useless, Myers is the closer and Houston goes to the AL next year. Stetson Allie seems to have dropped from most of the lists. Minor is solid, but might not even get a rotation spot this year. We all know Chapman is a huge question mark. I have a feeling that with his upside he could go for more than $10 so I'm interested in him but not in love with him. I like Allen Craig but I'm not sure his upside and contract are the most desirable. It's clearly a quantity over quality but it's something to work with. I feel like he's throwing in all the guys that could be sweeteners in a deal but I'm not getting the substance. What do you guys think?

As for the other deal, it's also some question marks, I like both those pitchers but they aren't exactly bargains. He has Arodys Vizcaino $3A that I'd be very interested in getting and Madison Bumgarner $10B but I don't think I have what it takes to get him.

Yeah, I'd rather keep Putz and Aramis and trade them in season than accept either of those piles of magic beans. Arodys would be a better piece but I still think he is likely to end up an 8th inning guy in the end, so that limits his value.

Minor (who I like more than you) and Craig (who is probably at his peak right now but is an interesting piece) is a good start to a deal for those 2 but maybe a different sweetener gets it done. I don't like any of the Stauffer/J-Mac pieces.

[BuckyBuckner]

Yeah, I'd rather keep Putz and Aramis and trade them in season than accept either of those piles of magic beans. Arodys would be a better piece but I still think he is likely to end up an 8th inning guy in the end, so that limits his value.

Minor (who I like more than you) and Craig (who is probably at his peak right now but is an interesting piece) is a good start to a deal for those 2 but maybe a different sweetener gets it done. I don't like any of the Stauffer/J-Mac pieces.

Thanks. I don't dislike Minor, I just don't see him as the main piece of the deal, as you say. What about Minor, Craig and the 8th pick for Putz, (still doesn't seem like enough, but closer)? I know another owner likes Ramirez and I'm trying to get the #1 overall pick from him.

That other owner has guys like Lucroy $3A, Duda $5A and Tim Wheeler $3M. Not that inspiring.

[joncarlos]

Thanks. I don't dislike Minor, I just don't see him as the main piece of the deal, as you say. What about Minor, Craig and the 8th pick for Putz, (still doesn't seem like enough, but closer)? I know another owner likes Ramirez and I'm trying to get the #1 overall pick from him.

That other owner has guys like Lucroy $3A, Duda $5A and Tim Wheeler $3M. Not that inspiring.

I think Duda is a solid piece. If you could turn Putz/Aramis into Minor, Craig, Duda and maybe a pick, that's a pretty good return. It's not turning your team around but you're not exactly trading a $2 Hanley here either.