How good a manager is Bobby Valentine?

[SlideRule]

At this point, I think the Rays are probably the best team in the AL East.

I think I may agree with you, but I thought I'd point out they are currently in the process of being swept (4 games) by the Sox. OK, it's 0-0 now, but the Rays can't get a hit.

[chancellor]

I think I may agree with you, but I thought I'd point out they are currently in the process of being swept (4 games) by the Sox. OK, it's 0-0 now, but the Rays can't get a hit.

Looks like the bats on both teams didn't wake up yet.

As an aside, I found it interesting that it wasn't Ortiz, but Pedroia was the one barking back at Valentine through the media.

[cavebird]

Looks like the bats on both teams didn't wake up yet.

As an aside, I found it interesting that it wasn't Ortiz, but Pedroia was the one barking back at Valentine through the media.

Ortiz doesn't need to. Valentine knows that if he tries to call out Ortiz, Ortiz will sit on him.

[B-Fly]

TC is not only the biggest homer on these here boards but possibly in the entire world. Even though the problems he states about the Red Sox apply almost word for word to his Yankees, well, you know, it's just way different because they're the Yankees. A rotation rife with holes? That's the Sox, not the Yanks. A couple young stars and a bunch of broken and/or old potential stars? Sox, not Yanks. Bad contracts? You guessed it --- Sox, not Yanks. I especially liked his comment in the Ellsbury gets injured thread that seemed to suggest that the Red Sox were a bad organization because of the current structure of their outfield, as if management went out and broke Crawford's wrist and body slammed Ellsbury's elbow.

Sheesh. When you're a partisan fan in a great rivalry, whether it's Yankees-Red Sox, Dodgers-Giants, Michigan-Ohio St, Duke-UNC - whatever - part of the fun of it is that you get to have a little fun at your rival team's misfortune. That's all I've seen TC doing. You act like it's a capital offense. And then, of course, when the Yankees experience misfortune, every non-Yankee fan on the board revels in it. That's fine, too. It's part of the fun of being a fan.

[cavebird]

Sheesh. When you're a partisan fan in a great rivalry, whether it's Yankees-Red Sox, Dodgers-Giants, Michigan-Ohio St, Duke-UNC - whatever - part of the fun of it is that you get to have a little fun at your rival team's misfortune. That's all I've seen TC doing. You act like it's a capital offense. And then, of course, when the Yankees experience misfortune, every non-Yankee fan on the board revels in it. That's fine, too. It's part of the fun of being a fan.

You do have to admit, however, that TC tends to get into it a little more than most. He's just easily encouragable.

[Moonlight J]

"He's great!"

Regards,

Rays fans 4/16/12

[TopChuckie]

TC is not only the biggest homer on these here boards but possibly in the entire world. Even though the problems he states about the Red Sox apply almost word for word to his Yankees, well, you know, it's just way different because they're the Yankees. A rotation rife with holes? That's the Sox, not the Yanks. A couple young stars and a bunch of broken and/or old potential stars? Sox, not Yanks. Bad contracts? You guessed it --- Sox, not Yanks. I especially liked his comment in the Ellsbury gets injured thread that seemed to suggest that the Red Sox were a bad organization because of the current structure of their outfield, as if management went out and broke Crawford's wrist and body slammed Ellsbury's elbow.

Yeah, because the Yankees are fighting with their manager in the press, they have players refusing to attend team functions, all kinds of commitment, dedication, and focus issues sprouting up all over the place for a year or so, a volatile, lightning rod manager who does a radio show in Boston because that's a good way to calm things down, they have no farm system, numerous 4th OF's and utility men in their starting lineup, they moved Rivera into the rotation because starters are more valuable, traded away a decent young SS and OF for extra "closers" and filled their spots with the likes of Mike Aviles and Cody Ross, bench players on their previous, lower payroll teams. The Yanks have a plan and a direction, they have some troublesome contracts, but they are making fairly sound decisions to try to offset that.

The one area I'll grant that the Yanks made a similar mistake was the Montero trade where they traded away a need, a young cost controlled middle of the order bat, in order to add to what was already an area of depth, young cost controlled pitching prospects, but at least the "cost controlled" part was maintained.

I'm sorry, I don't see a rotation rife with holes when they don't know who they'll bump when Pettitte and Pineda are ready. Seven players for 5 spots is not rife with holes. One or two lack luster turns through the rotation is not the end of the world. Is the Giants' rotation rife with holes too? Kershaw was a little shaky yesterday, do the Dodgers' have a hole at Ace?

Crawford has been banged up since last year, that didn't just happen. And Cody Ross was already going to be a starter before any injuries. They should have added a legitimate outfielder or two to start in RF and in case Crawford wasn't ready. If Ross was their 4th OF and was forced to start along with Ellsbury and a real starting OF in RF, until Crawford was ready to return to LF, things would look a lot different.

[Roto Rooter]

He used to do stuff like this with the Mets all the time. I guess he thinks it's a good way to motivate by making your players look dumb in public.

[cavebird]

Yeah, because the Yankees are fighting with their manager in the press, they have players refusing to attend team functions, all kinds of commitment, dedication, and focus issues sprouting up all over the place for a year or so, a volatile, lightning rod manager who does a radio show in Boston because that's a good way to calm things down, they have no farm system, numerous 4th OF's and utility men in their starting lineup, they moved Rivera into the rotation because starters are more valuable, traded away a decent young SS and OF for extra "closers" and filled their spots with the likes of Mike Aviles and Cody Ross, bench players on their previous, lower payroll teams. The Yanks have a plan and a direction, they have some troublesome contracts, but they are making fairly sound decisions to try to offset that.

The one area I'll grant that the Yanks made a similar mistake was the Montero trade where they traded away a need, a young cost controlled middle of the order bat, in order to add to what was already an area of depth, young cost controlled pitching prospects, but at least the "cost controlled" part was maintained.

I'm sorry, I don't see a rotation rife with holes when they don't know who they'll bump when Pettitte and Pineda are ready. Seven players for 5 spots is not rife with holes. One or two lack luster turns through the rotation is not the end of the world. Is the Giants' rotation rife with holes too? Kershaw was a little shaky yesterday, do the Dodgers' have a hole at Ace?

Crawford has been banged up since last year, that didn't just happen. And Cody Ross was already going to be a starter before any injuries. They should have added a legitimate outfielder or two to start in RF and in case Crawford wasn't ready. If Ross was their 4th OF and was forced to start along with Ellsbury and a real starting OF in RF, until Crawford was ready to return to LF, things would look a lot different.

Pettite being ready only makes the rotation Sabathia (good), Kuroda (solid) and four mediocre possibilities. Not sure how that is different than having three. Pineda coming back and pitching well would be big for the Yankees, but how many arm issues are resolved by rest? As for fourth OF's in the lineup; without injuries, the Red Sox would have one, and the Yankees would have one (I am not sure what else to call Ibanez/Jones; it sure looks like Ross/Sweeney et al.). True, they are DHing, but that is irrelevant when talking about the batting lineup. (And the Red Sox obviously have a real DH.)

[TopChuckie]

Pettite being ready only makes the rotation Sabathia (good), Kuroda (solid) and four mediocre possibilities. Not sure how that is different than having three. Pineda coming back and pitching well would be big for the Yankees, but how many arm issues are resolved by rest? As for fourth OF's in the lineup; without injuries, the Red Sox would have one, and the Yankees would have one (I am not sure what else to call Ibanez/Jones; it sure looks like Ross/Sweeney et al.). True, they are DHing, but that is irrelevant when talking about the batting lineup. (And the Red Sox obviously have a real DH.)

We'll see how the pitching turns out, I don't expect them all to be awesome, but that's the beauty of options, there's a good enough rotation in there somewhere. I think David Phelps could be the 5th starter for a lot of teams.

As far as DH goes, that was at least their plan, whether I fully agree with it or not, to not tie up their DH spot with a true, full-time DH because they realize they need to accommodate and preserve their aging, over priced players, by playing them more at DH. Plus, they want the opportunity it affords them to develop one of their young players in Nunez and see what they have there. For the record, I don't think it will work and he will never amount to a full-time player, but I can understand taking a shot to find out for sure. So it has a two-fold intentional benefit that at least shows some self awareness and vision as a team, unlike not being better prepared for the Crawford situation. Personally I would rather see Montero DH'ing and not have Pineda as one of the options, but I can understand what they are trying to do. I'm not saying the Yankees don't make mistakes, I hope they never again pay big money for an outside reliever, but I don't feel like they are lost at sea like the Red Sox are, and I think Theo got off what he realized was a sinking ship.

[Erik]

He's not as condescending as Kohm. So there's that.

[DMT]

"He's great!"

Regards,

Rays fans 4/16/12

I assume you're talking about Larry Vanover? Disgraceful, even though as a Shields and Rodney owner I was certainly happy with the outcome.

http://deadspin.com/5902405/the-red-sox-game-ended-with-a-magical-elastic-strike-zone

[TopChuckie]

TC is not only the biggest homer on these here boards but possibly in the entire world. Even though the problems he states about the Red Sox apply almost word for word to his Yankees, well, you know, it's just way different because they're the Yankees. A rotation rife with holes? That's the Sox, not the Yanks. A couple young stars and a bunch of broken and/or old potential stars? Sox, not Yanks. Bad contracts? You guessed it --- Sox, not Yanks. I especially liked his comment in the Ellsbury gets injured thread that seemed to suggest that the Red Sox were a bad organization because of the current structure of their outfield, as if management went out and broke Crawford's wrist and body slammed Ellsbury's elbow.

My bad, both teams DID have all the same issues this year. You nailed it elD. I was way off all over this thread. I am so embarrassed to be such a delusional homer with no sense of reality or objectivity.

"Now I'm just trying to get out ahead of the crash so when it happens again I will have said my piece and just sit back and enjoy again." - TopChuckie, 4/16/12

[Moonlight J]

"He's great!"

Regards,

Rays fans 4/16/12

yesssssss

[Erik]

Anyway, the definitive answer to the question in the thread title is "Not very."