Braun NL MVP

[revo]

Put unkindly: If there is a white kid with a nice smile anywhere near the top numberwise, a superior black player who has been captured on video dogging it in a major league game and may or may not be surly or uncommunicative with the media will never stand a chance of winning. There, I said it.

Psst -- black players have won 6 of the last 10 NL MVP Awards, including that surly dude who played in your home stadium for years.

[chancellor]

Put unkindly: If there is a white kid with a nice smile anywhere near the top numberwise, a superior black player who has been captured on video dogging it in a major league game and may or may not be surly or uncommunicative with the media will never stand a chance of winning. There, I said it.

Really? Perhaps you can explain how Ryan Howard won in '06 and Jimmy Rollins won in '07, especially Rollins, whose numbers were significantly worse than Matt Holliday's in just about every key metric.

I'd say "winning team" and not "race" is the issue here in somewhat close contests, especially over the last ten years in the NL. If the Dodgers had won the West and the Brewers finished 83-79, I have no doubt the vote would have been reversed. About the only exception I can think of was '91 where Pendleton beat out Bonds, with Bonds having vastly superior stats and both coming from winning teams. And, I'll note, both beat out the charismatic white guy - Will Clark - despite Clark having traditional metrics advantages over both of them (More HRs and better BA than Bonds, more HRs and many more RBI than Pendleton). But the Giants finished in 4th place, while the Pirates and Braves finished in 1st in their divisions.

[The Dane]

Psst -- black players have won 6 of the last 10 NL MVP Awards, including that surly dude who played in your home stadium for years.

True, but that surly dude had ungodly, impossible numbers and in one instance they even chose our surly white dude over him for MVP.

I suppose, I shouldn't have said "never." However, if I'm a betting man, I'm always putting my money on the squeaky-clean white dude. And the Rollins/Holliday example further proves my point. Look at the type of personality Rollins demonstrates. He is friendly and smiley and outgoing and not threatening at all, just the way some Americans prefer their black people, acquiescent and happy and saying "sir" to reporters and so very very thankful for everything baseball has given them. In fact, in comparison, Holliday is dour and serious. Really, think about it. If Milton Bradley came back next season and posted MVP numbers (unlikely, I know), would he win? No way, ever. They'd give it to someone else. ANYONE else. The only reason why Bonds ever won was because he was so clearly the best player in the game that they HAD to give it to him.

Don't get me wrong, the numbers matter to the voters, but when it's close -like with Kemp and Braun- just think about who the cracker would vote for and you'll be right an overwhelming amount of the time.

[Erik]

Look at the type of personality Rollins demonstrates. He is friendly and smiley and outgoing and not threatening at all, just the way some Americans prefer their black people, acquiescent and happy and saying "sir" to reporters and so very very thankful for everything baseball has given them.

Actually, Rollins has been known to dog it occasionally and to engage in trash talk. Not incessantly or egregiously in either case, but he's hardly an Uncle Tom.

[revo]

True, but that surly dude had ungodly, impossible numbers and in one instance they even chose our surly white dude over him for MVP.

I suppose, I shouldn't have said "never." However, if I'm a betting man, I'm always putting my money on the squeaky-clean white dude. And the Rollins/Holliday example further proves my point. Look at the type of personality Rollins demonstrates. He is friendly and smiley and outgoing and not threatening at all, just the way some Americans prefer their black people, acquiescent and happy and saying "sir" to reporters and so very very thankful for everything baseball has given them. In fact, in comparison, Holliday is dour and serious. Really, think about it. If Milton Bradley came back next season and posted MVP numbers (unlikely, I know), would he win? No way, ever. They'd give it to someone else. ANYONE else. The only reason why Bonds ever won was because he was so clearly the best player in the game that they HAD to give it to him.

Don't get me wrong, the numbers matter to the voters, but when it's close -like with Kemp and Braun- just think about who the cracker would vote for and you'll be right an overwhelming amount of the time.

I hear what you're saying and can appreciate your honest opinion. But even if you go back a ways, some pretty surly or selfish types have won the award -- Frank Thomas, Jim Rice, Rickey Henderson & Dick Allen for example -- and Albert Belle and Eddie Murray came damned close. Perhaps if they weren't so surly, Belle or Murray maybe would've won. I'm not sure Kemp even belongs in that class of surly, either. Milton Bradley has his own class of surly.

Go back to the 1950s and 1960s when African-Americans were still fighting for equality (both in baseball and in real life) and most reporters were indeed the 'crackers' you say, and they still won the award when it was deserved. In fact, from 1949-1962, black players won the NL MVP in 10 of those 13 seasons, even as blacks were the short end of the civil rights movement.

I just can't believe race has much of a part in MVP voting, since quite frankly, it never has.

[Gregg]

It is the "intangibles" that make the justification/difference. If it was just the stats there would never be a debate.

[OaklandA's]

It is the "intangibles" that make the justification/difference. If it was just the stats there would never be a debate.

Disagree with your second sentence. There are so many different stats to consider that there will always be a debate. How important are "clutch" stats and how do you best measure them anyway? How important is defense, and how do you quantify that? How do you compare a SS to a 1B? Pitchers vs. Position Players? What about things like base running, park effects, playing time, and teammates? These things are all what I would consider "tangible", but there are many ways to weight the different stats.

[chancellor]

Actually, Rollins has been known to dog it occasionally and to engage in trash talk. Not incessantly or egregiously in either case, but he's hardly an Uncle Tom.

Thanks - IMO, Ryan Howard is a far nicer guy than Rollins. Of course, I'm looking at Dane's post and figure that Americans prefer their ball players acquiescent and happy over dour and serious regardless of race.

[Erik]

Thanks - IMO, Ryan Howard is a far nicer guy than Rollins.

He is, and much more fits Dane's description than Rollins does.

Of course, I'm looking at Dane's post and figure that Americans prefer their ball players acquiescent and happy over dour and serious regardless of race.

Well, sportswriters do, at least.

[Rick Vaughn]

Anyone else feel Braun will have injury problems in 2012 without his fix?

[wannabegriffey]

Seems like he has rabbit ears