Share your interesting baseball reads here

[chancellor]

Not terribly related, but has anyone ever been able to tell how fast Bob Feller's fastball actually was, based on historical footage? Big Train's? Edit: Rube Waddell? Old Hoss? Al Spalding and his underhanded pitch?

Feller's fastball was actually measured by some device after WWII. I can't remember the details, but I know it came out at over 98 MPH.

[The Feral Slasher]

Not terribly related, but has anyone ever been able to tell how fast Bob Feller's fastball actually was, based on historical footage? Big Train's?

I have seen the Feller video with a motorcycle, but missed the one with a train.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Wouldn't you just take the maximum linear speed and then adjust that via angular velocity calcs to 6 inches off the end of the bat (sweet spot is used for bat speed)?

I guess you need to know the radius for that to work, which is basically the distance between the end of the bat and the center of rotation (effectively, center of body). Hmm, that varies by bat length but also by swing type... Yeah I guess I answered my own question there, nevermind.

I believe it's theoretically feasible. This is something we asked TrackMan to do as soon as they started putting pitch and batted ball tracking radar systems in stadiums. They said they would look into it, but it's never something they brought to market. Now that optical tracking systems are proliferating, it's easier to do it that way.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Feller's fastball was actually measured by some device after WWII. I can't remember the details, but I know it came out at over 98 MPH.

I've always been skeptical of that measurement. It was probably accurate enough to establish that his fastball was over 90 mph, but I'm doubtful it was accurate enough to distinguish 95 from 98. Any good scientific measurement should come with error margins. For instance radar guns are accurate to within 1-2 mph, a TrackMan radar or Hawkeye optical system that you have in MLB games is accurate to within 0.25 mph or better.

[rhd]

Not terribly related, but has anyone ever been able to tell how fast Bob Feller's fastball actually was, based on historical footage? Big Train's? Edit: Rube Waddell? Old Hoss? Al Spalding and his underhanded pitch?

Here's a documentary from 2016 that I just saw w/i the week that attempts to answer this question, as well as trying to determine what was the fastest pitch ever thrown in MLB. The movie is about 1.5 hours but the part that attempts to answer these questions starts at 1:18:34:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rghz4sa48w

It is available to view only on YT's platform. Basically, it compares 4 different fastballs, thrown by 4 different pitchers of different eras. The 1st pitch was by Walter Johnson. They tried to estimate how fast his FB was by having him throw thru a set of thin copper wires 60.6 ft away which would trigger the start of a timing mechanism that would stop when the ball hit a metal plate 15 ft further down the path of the ball. They estimated that the average velocity of his pitch over the last 15 ft of this 75.5 ft flight to be 83.2 mph.

The 2nd pitch was Feller's which was measured using a device set up at home plate. They estimated this at 98.6 mph. The 3rd one was a pitch Nolan Ryan threw in an actual game in 1974 which was measured using an early version of radar technology. This was measured at 100.8 mph. The last pitch was Aroldis Chapman's pitch clocked at 105.1 mph using a modern radar gun and technique.

The problem is that each measurement method was different. Gravity and friction from the air slows the ball down immediately after release. Johnson's pitch was measured after it had already traveled 60.6 ft and the value still was just an average over the next 15 ft. Feller's pitch was measured rt at home plate. Ryan's pitch was measured at about 10 ft in front of home plate. Modern radar gun readings are done at 50 ft from home plate, which was the method used for Chapman's pitch. They did some calculations to determine how fast each of the other pitches was going at 50 ft from home plate. They determined that Johnson's pitch was travelling 93.8 mph, Feller's at 107.6 mph and Ryan's at 108.5 mph. So they claimed that Ryan's pitch was the fastest of all-time. They also mentioned Steve Dalkowski, an Orioles' farmhand that some estimated threw a pitch at around 110 mph, but Dalkowski's pitches were never measured for velocity. Of course, there were many pitches thrown before the advent of modern radar that were not measured, including many by Ryan, so we'll never really know whether Ryan's measured pitch was the fastest.

The entire documentary is good so I'd recommend watching the entire video. It is a "YT Free Movie" rt now but YT doesnt keep them free for long so if you want to see it for free you'd better do it in the next week or so.

[Bene Futuis]

Here's a documentary from 2016 that I just saw w/i the week that attempts to answer this question, as well as trying to determine what was the fastest pitch ever thrown in MLB. The movie is about 1.5 hours but the part that attempts to answer these questions starts at 1:18:34:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rghz4sa48w

It is available to view only on YT's platform. Basically, it compares 4 different fastballs, thrown by 4 different pitchers of different eras. The 1st pitch was by Walter Johnson. They tried to estimate how fast his FB was by having him throw thru a set of thin copper wires 60.6 ft away which would trigger the start of a timing mechanism that would stop when the ball hit a metal plate 15 ft further down the path of the ball. They estimated that the average velocity of his pitch over the last 15 ft of this 75.5 ft flight to be 83.2 mph.

The 2nd pitch was Feller's which was measured using a device set up at home plate. They estimated this at 98.6 mph. The 3rd one was a pitch Nolan Ryan threw in an actual game in 1974 which was measured using an early version of radar technology. This was measured at 100.8 mph. The last pitch was Aroldis Chapman's pitch clocked at 105.1 mph using a modern radar gun and technique.

The problem is that each measurement method was different. Gravity and friction from the air slows the ball down immediately after release. Johnson's pitch was measured after it had already traveled 60.6 ft and the value still was just an average over the next 15 ft. Feller's pitch was measured rt at home plate. Ryan's pitch was measured at about 10 ft in front of home plate. Modern radar gun readings are done at 50 ft from home plate, which was the method used for Chapman's pitch. They did some calculations to determine how fast each of the other pitches was going at 50 ft from home plate. They determined that Johnson's pitch was travelling 93.8 mph, Feller's at 107.6 mph and Ryan's at 108.5 mph. So they claimed that Ryan's pitch was the fastest of all-time. They also mentioned Steve Dalkowski, an Orioles' farmhand that some estimated threw a pitch at around 110 mph, but Dalkowski's pitches were never measured for velocity. Of course, there were many pitches thrown before the advent of modern radar that were not measured, including many by Ryan, so we'll never really know whether Ryan's measured pitch was the fastest.

The entire documentary is good so I'd recommend watching the entire video. It is a "YT Free Movie" rt now but YT doesnt keep them free for long so if you want to see it for free you'd better do it in the next week or so.

Awesome. I love this stuff.

[Bene Futuis]

I have seen the Feller video with a motorcycle, but missed the one with a train.

Daaaaaaaaaad, gawd!

[The Feral Slasher]

Daaaaaaaaaad, gawd!

I will show myself out

[Ken]

I will show myself out

That's a little extreme, I thought the comment was right on track. I couldn't have engineered a better response.

[chancellor]

I've always been skeptical of that measurement. It was probably accurate enough to establish that his fastball was over 90 mph, but I'm doubtful it was accurate enough to distinguish 95 from 98. Any good scientific measurement should come with error margins. For instance radar guns are accurate to within 1-2 mph, a TrackMan radar or Hawkeye optical system that you have in MLB games is accurate to within 0.25 mph or better.

No argument from me. I just remember the measurement being done - there's a family story behind it.

[The Feral Slasher]

No argument from me. I just remember the measurement being done - there's a family story behind it.

.....

[rhd]

This is from a long time ago, but I'd never seen it before:

Never seen a ball girl make a any play close to as good as that before. That catch would be a season highlight even if a GG OFer made it.

[Sour Masher]

This is from a long time ago, but I'd never seen it before:

Never seen a ball girl make a any play close to as good as that before. That catch would be a season highlight even if a GG OFer made it.

It is fake, from a commercial that never aired. It is the first thing I looked for after seeing it, as I am sure we would have heard about it at the time. That would be an all-time great catch in baseball history, so it was too surprising I'd never seen it before. Here is one of the comments:

"This much is true: on April 17, the Fresno Grizzlies hosted the Tacoma Rainiers in an evening contest at Chukchansi Park. And at some point in the ballgame, Tacoma's Brent Johnson came to the plate against Victor Santos and lofted a deep fly ball down the left-field line.

What didn't happen (at least not in real life) is the catch itself. The ball girl was a stunt woman, working on behalf of an advertising production agency that was filming a Gatorade ad. However, this particular campaign was scrapped before the commercial could make it to the airwaves. The ad was leaked online instead, where it quickly became a viral video sensation.

As a result, Grizzlies Director of Media Relations Paul Kennedy has been a very busy man.

"I've been getting calls from all over the country and our website has gotten a lot more hits over the past couple of days," he said. "It's funny, because there's really no explanation for why something like this catches fire. I think what helped the video find an audience is that it's really hard to tell that it was a commercial. With the logos removed and no voiceovers, it really does look like unedited game footage."

The distinction between fantasy and reality is indeed a tricky one to make, largely due to the clip's attention to detail. The first 12 seconds is actual game footage from the April 17 contest, and Grizzlies announcer Doug Greenwald played a part in the ruse by later recording an authentic-sounding play-by-play call of the ball girl's acrobatics.

[rhd]

It is fake, from a commercial that never aired. It is the first thing I looked for after seeing it, as I am sure we would have heard about it at the time. That would be an all-time great catch in baseball history, so it was too surprising I'd never seen it before. Here is one of the comments:

"This much is true: on April 17, the Fresno Grizzlies hosted the Tacoma Rainiers in an evening contest at Chukchansi Park. And at some point in the ballgame, Tacoma's Brent Johnson came to the plate against Victor Santos and lofted a deep fly ball down the left-field line.

What didn't happen (at least not in real life) is the catch itself. The ball girl was a stunt woman, working on behalf of an advertising production agency that was filming a Gatorade ad. However, this particular campaign was scrapped before the commercial could make it to the airwaves. The ad was leaked online instead, where it quickly became a viral video sensation.

As a result, Grizzlies Director of Media Relations Paul Kennedy has been a very busy man.

"I've been getting calls from all over the country and our website has gotten a lot more hits over the past couple of days," he said. "It's funny, because there's really no explanation for why something like this catches fire. I think what helped the video find an audience is that it's really hard to tell that it was a commercial. With the logos removed and no voiceovers, it really does look like unedited game footage."

The distinction between fantasy and reality is indeed a tricky one to make, largely due to the clip's attention to detail. The first 12 seconds is actual game footage from the April 17 contest, and Grizzlies announcer Doug Greenwald played a part in the ruse by later recording an authentic-sounding play-by-play call of the ball girl's acrobatics.

Thanx for the info. Supposedly a lot of these ball girls are actual softball players (current or former) from college teams, which lends credibility to this incredible-looking play.

[TranaGreg]

it did make me consider - what if if Jackie Chan was a ballboy when he was young (and lived in the states) ...