Originally posted by The Feral Slasher
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Baseball Hall of Fame voting
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Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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And I wouldn't know what to do with the character clause either if I were a Hall of Fame voter. I definitely think character, integrity, and sportsmanship matter. And the players' contributions to their teams depend on those things, too, insofar as how they affect their teammates and endear themselves to the fans. But judging all that from the outside can be tough. Even judging it from the vantage of a beat writer who had daily in-person access to the players can be tough. In fact, sometimes I think that can distort viewpoints. Not to mention that there can be a racial component to judging all of that at times. I'm glad it's not my job to pick the Hall of Fame."Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"
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Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View PostI'm pretty sure the Charmin bear's balls have been canceled.---------------------------------------------
Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
George Orwell, 1984
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Originally posted by Bene Futuis View PostThe verbiage is: “voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”
The middle part, "integrity, sportsmanship, character", is what's now commonly referred to as the character clause portion for HoF voters. It's very vague, obviously, but does not appear to be limited to actual or known cheating.
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But separate from off the field stuff, am I the only one that thinks Schilling's baseball resume is HOF worthy?
And less contentiously, I assume, I also think Scott Rolen should eventually get in. Anyone want to argue against him being a top 10 3bman all time (I mean true 3bman, not counting guys who played there some).
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostBut separate from off the field stuff, am I the only one that thinks Schilling's baseball resume is HOF worthy?I'm just here for the baseball.
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I mean, I get and can appreciate the small hall arguments. I think it waters down things to have someone so insanely good, like Hank Aaron, be in the same Hall at Harold Baines, but it is what it is, and while Baines is the more egregious recent example I can think of, he isn't the first example of the Hall being more inclusive than many of us would like. All I know is that a HOF that has Harold Baines in it but not Rolen loses all its meaning. I am not saying we now have to let every Baines level guy in, because he is in, but a guy twice as good as him should get in.
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostI'd vote for he and Bonds. Bonds PED start time has been pretty well known, and he essentially had a HOF resume before all that happened.Last edited by Sour Masher; 01-27-2021, 06:53 PM.
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostI'd vote for he and Bonds. Bonds PED start time has been pretty well known, and he essentially had a HOF resume before all that happened.If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View PostIf I was to forgive him cheating and being an ass I can't get past his lying about it.
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But at the same time, Bonds, sans cheating, was still so clearly an all-time great, as was Clemens. It is frustrating not to have all-time greats in the HOF. If he didn't cheat, though, his career WAR and career trajectory probably would have been closer to Griffey Jr, who also started out great, but faded, presumably, without the wonder drugs Bonds used.
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostWhen you do something like cheating, lying is to be expected. The thing that annoyed me the most about them were the times they would compared themselves to all time greats and there would be no shame at all in their sense of place in baseball history. They cheated in a cheaters era, and comparing them to other cheaters is fair. But comparing Bonds to Aaron, lets say, is not fair to me. Aaron is still my home run king.
Lol, I hear what you're saying but Bonds never got caught for anything ever. Only rumors and allegations. And we have to realize, too, that cheating didn't just suddenly come to be in the steroid era. I mean, think about Mickey Mantle and his amphetamine use (and general shittiness beyond the drugs). His famed HR chase with Maris in '61 was cut short because of a botched amphetamine injection leading to infection, iirc.
It's just too hard to determine which guys used drugs to cheat and which didn't without falling upon total guesswork and conjecture. I just assume all of them are, were, and will be. My Hall definitely includes tons of drugs - way more fun that way.More American children die by gunfire in a year than on-duty police officers and active duty military.
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostBut at the same time, Bonds, sans cheating, was still so clearly an all-time great, as was Clemens. It is frustrating not to have all-time greats in the HOF. If he didn't cheat, though, his career WAR and career trajectory probably would have been closer to Griffey Jr, who also started out great, but faded, presumably, without the wonder drugs Bonds used.If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Originally posted by Bene Futuis View Post#notmyHRking
Lol, I hear what you're saying but Bonds never got caught for anything ever. Only rumors and allegations. And we have to realize, too, that cheating didn't just suddenly come to be in the steroid era. I mean, think about Mickey Mantle and his amphetamine use (and general shittiness beyond the drugs). His famed HR chase with Maris in '61 was cut short because of a botched amphetamine injection leading to infection, iirc.
It's just too hard to determine which guys used drugs to cheat and which didn't without falling upon total guesswork and conjecture. I just assume all of them are, were, and will be. My Hall definitely includes tons of drugs - way more fun that way.
On the drugs in the Hall, I am more impressed when players do drugs that should hurt their performance and they still do great. Like if I found out some dude took sleeping pills before he played, and smoked a ton of pot, I'd be super impressed.Last edited by Sour Masher; 01-27-2021, 07:36 PM.
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