2K19: Madison Bumgarner

[Ken]

It's the right time to move Votto. I also have Rizzo and Bellinger at 1B and was playing Votto in one of my DH spots and he's a marginal starter on my team.

Gotta disagree -- I think the right time to move Votto would have been last year. You're definitely selling low if you move him now.

[Roy Hobbs]

Gotta disagree -- I think the right time to move Votto would have been last year. You're definitely selling low if you move him now.

My team can absolutely absorb it for some help at SP. My other starters are Cole, Price, Darvish, Taillon, and Toussaint and that's it. It was the right move for 2019 for my team. I believe Bumgarner has at the very least a decent season left in him and I don't see getting much better of a pitcher for Votto at this point in his career. My offense is Sanchez (C), Rizzo (1B), Segura (2B / SS), Devers (3B), Turner (SS), Whitfield (MI / OF), Bellinger (CI, 1B, OF), Acuna (OF), Hoskins (OF), Soto, (OF), Trout (OF), Odor (DH), Robles (DH). With Franmil Reyes, Vlad Jr., Willie Calhoun, Jo Adell, and Ke'Bryan Hayes on my bench. My starting relievers are Kimbrel, Hand, LeClerc. My bench pitchers are Luiz Gohara, Triston McKenzie, Luis Medina, Chris Paddack, Corbin Burnes, Seranthony Dominguez, and Brandon Morrow. We start 13 hitters and 9 pitchers.

[cavebird]

It's the right time to move Votto. I also have Rizzo and Bellinger at 1B and was playing Votto in one of my DH spots and he's a marginal starter on my team. Also, he's more like 130 - 140 Runs + RBIs, not 170. I don't feel we can go back in time on Votto. He's 35 and at least to me appears to be declining. It really doesn't matter to my team that he isn't on it. It's always better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. Having said that, the same thing could definitely be said for Bumgarner, but at least he helps my team more for 2019 than Votto would. At least I hope he does.

He was 134 R + RBI last year in a very bad year for him. As I noted, all of the projection systems have him about 170-180 for this year, which is in between last year and 2017, which was very good (206 R + RBI). If you are assuming a repeat of last year or worse, you are definitely selling low. Then again, you seemed to get a fair return for him in MadBum. And having two big 1B like you do definitely does make him less valuable.

[Ken]

My team can absolutely absorb it for some help at SP.

Whether or not you can absorb it does not make it "the right time" in the general sense. But I agree that MadBum isn't a bad return overall.

[Roy Hobbs]

He was 134 R + RBI last year in a very bad year for him. As I noted, all of the projection systems have him about 170-180 for this year, which is in between last year and 2017, which was very good (206 R + RBI). If you are assuming a repeat of last year or worse, you are definitely selling low. Then again, you seemed to get a fair return for him in MadBum. And having two big 1B like you do definitely does make him less valuable.

Not always getting a huge return for an aging player that could put up decent stats is sometimes the right play. Getting a player that can possibly help in a need area sometimes necessitates taking less for a player, but I don't consider losing Votto in this situation a big deal. Now if I traded for Bumgarner giving up someone in their prime and has great future years ahead of them, that would be whole different story. In dynasty leagues you obviously have to weigh today with the future and with Votto and Bumgarner, their best stats are behind both, maybe Bumgarner more than Votto for this year, but I do believe Bumgarner helps me to a title in 2019 more than Votto does. I guess I can't explain my motives any better than that.

[cavebird]

Not always getting a huge return for an aging player that could put up decent stats is sometimes the right play. Getting a player that can possibly help in a need area sometimes necessitates taking less for a player, but I don't consider losing Votto in this situation a big deal. Now if I traded for Bumgarner giving up someone in their prime and has great future years ahead of them, that would be whole different story. In dynasty leagues you obviously have to weigh today with the future and with Votto and Bumgarner, their best stats are behind both, maybe Bumgarner more than Votto for this year, but I do believe Bumgarner helps me to a title in 2019 more than Votto does. I guess I can't explain my motives any better than that.

I understand it, and have noted multiple times that Bumgarner seems to be a reasonable return. I did not understand the idea of trading him for Happ, especially months before the season starts---if you had not found a decent return there would be no need for you to trade him now. You also seem to think that Robles and some other kids will have better years than Votto this year, and I disagree with that, but that is neither here nor there. I think the fundamental disagreement between you and others (including me) is that you seem to think Votto will continue to decline from last year while others think a bounce-back to something between 2017 and 2018 is more likely. For example, I would assert that Votto is more than a player who "could put up decent stats." I would say he is likely to put up decent stats, reasonably likely to put up good stats, and has a chance to put up great stats. But hey, you got reasonable value in an area of need (not sure that you really need pitching that much with Cole, Taillon, and Price on board, but then again, in a dynasty league, there probably is nothing much to draft) for a guy you clearly like less than most, so it all worked out in the end.

[Roy Hobbs]

I agree that trading for Happ wasn't a good idea, glad I didn't. I floated many offers with Votto and posted that he was up for trade on the league message board. Like you said, Bumgarner was a decent return and he fits a need. I hope he has a great year in 2019 because I don't think he has many left (if any).