Originally posted by cavebird
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minorleagueball...john sickels
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I'm not actually running a database query, but I don't think there are any once you get out of the silly years (e.g. Al Spalding was the active WAR leader since he was 21, Tommy Bond became the active WAR leader after Spalding retired at 23). Remember that Ott was 27 in 1936, and there were a couple other good players still playing then.In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.
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Originally posted by mjl View PostI'm not actually running a database query, but I don't think there are any once you get out of the silly years (e.g. Al Spalding was the active WAR leader since he was 21, Tommy Bond became the active WAR leader after Spalding retired at 23). Remember that Ott was 27 in 1936, and there were a couple other good players still playing then.
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Originally posted by mjl View PostI'm not actually running a database query, but I don't think there are any once you get out of the silly years (e.g. Al Spalding was the active WAR leader since he was 21, Tommy Bond became the active WAR leader after Spalding retired at 23). Remember that Ott was 27 in 1936, and there were a couple other good players still playing then.
Source is BBRef - yearly WAR totals by player can be found here: https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/ WAR daily data, full history: Batters, Pitchers
However, that was just txt files.
I then:
a) imported into my database
b) combined hitter and pitcher WAR
c) filtered down to the top 2 for each year
e) ordered by age
Result:
Code:Name Age Year WAR RANK Al Spalding 21 1872 16.050 1 Al Spalding 22 1873 25.240 1 Bobby Mathews 22 1874 30.410 2 Tommy Bond 22 1878 47.460 2 Tommy Bond 23 1879 61.800 1 Bobby Mathews 23 1875 37.910 2 Al Spalding 23 1874 35.860 1 Bobby Mathews 24 1876 40.330 2 Al Spalding 24 1875 50.070 1 Tommy Bond 24 1880 62.740 1 Tommy Bond 25 1881 62.700 1 Al Spalding 25 1876 60.230 1 Bobby Mathews 25 1877 38.210 2 Al Spalding 26 1877 60.370 1 George Zettlein 26 1871 4.520 1 Tommy Bond 26 1882 62.040 1 Jim McCormick 26 1883 48.810 1 Jim McCormick 27 1884 63.550 1 George Zettlein 27 1872 10.560 2 Al Spalding 27 1878 60.340 1 Bobby Mathews 27 1879 40.230 2 Mike Trout 27 2019 72.510 2 George Zettlein 28 1873 18.290 2 Tommy Bond 28 1884 60.880 2 Jim McCormick 28 1885 66.150 1 Cap Anson 28 1880 24.390 2 Kid Nichols 28 1898 88.880 1 Kid Nichols 29 1899 95.690 1 Jim McCormick 29 1886 73.350 1 Bobby Mathews 29 1881 38.650 2 Rynie Wolters 29 1871 4.370 2 Walter Johnson 29 1917 105.880 2 Walter Johnson 30 1918 117.440 1 Bobby Mathews 30 1882 42.400 2 Jim McCormick 30 1887 76.150 1 Tim Keefe 30 1887 65.160 2 Kid Nichols 30 1900 100.310 1 Ted Williams 30 1949 72.610 2 Ted Williams 31 1950 76.490 1 Stan Musial 31 1952 81.880 2 Albert Pujols 31 2011 86.620 2 Cy Young 31 1898 75.680 2 Kid Nichols 31 1901 107.180 1 Old Hoss Radbourn 31 1886 58.690 2 Tim Keefe 31 1888 74.290 1 Pud Galvin 31 1888 69.060 2 Bobby Mathews 31 1883 46.990 2 Ty Cobb 31 1918 104.310 2 Walter Johnson 31 1919 128.110 1 Ty Cobb 32 1919 109.840 2 Walter Johnson 32 1920 130.960 1 Jimmie Foxx 32 1940 91.420 2 Tim Keefe 32 1889 77.670 1 John Clarkson 32 1894 83.160 2 Cy Young 32 1899 83.950 2 Alex Rodriguez 32 2008 101.200 2 Rickey Henderson 32 1991 84.700 2 Stan Musial 32 1953 89.620 1 Ted Williams 32 1951 83.700 1 Tom Seaver 32 1977 82.280 2 Albert Pujols 32 2012 91.430 2 Albert Pujols 33 2013 92.890 2 Willie Mays 33 1964 109.160 1 Mickey Mantle 33 1965 100.210 2 Jimmie Foxx 33 1941 95.660 2 Mel Ott 33 1942 96.230 1 Ted Williams 33 1952 83.980 1 Stan Musial 33 1954 96.560 1 Rickey Henderson 33 1992 90.330 2 Cal Ripken Jr. 33 1994 81.050 2 Tom Seaver 33 1978 86.850 2 Alex Rodriguez 33 2009 105.350 1 Cy Young 33 1900 91.390 2 Tim Keefe 33 1890 82.040 1 Bobby Mathews 33 1885 56.280 2 Lou Gehrig 33 1936 100.620 2 Ty Cobb 33 1920 113.180 2 Walter Johnson 33 1921 136.250 1 Ty Cobb 34 1921 119.840 2 Walter Johnson 34 1922 141.650 1 Honus Wagner 34 1908 87.340 2 Lou Gehrig 34 1937 108.340 2 Babe Ruth 34 1929 141.670 1 Tim Keefe 34 1891 80.720 1 Cy Young 34 1901 103.950 2 Ed Delahanty 34 1902 68.390 2 Kid Nichols 34 1904 115.720 2 Alex Rodriguez 34 2010 109.500 1 Cal Ripken Jr. 34 1995 84.980 2 Roger Clemens 34 1997 92.870 2 Tom Seaver 34 1979 90.350 2 Rickey Henderson 34 1993 95.370 1 Stan Musial 34 1955 102.660 1 Ted Williams 34 1953 85.970 2 Jimmie Foxx 34 1942 95.810 2 Mel Ott 34 1943 99.070 1 Mickey Mantle 34 1966 103.760 2 Hank Aaron 34 1968 111.590 2 Willie Mays 34 1965 120.380 1 Albert Pujols 34 2014 96.880 1 Adrian Beltre 35 2014 77.570 2 Albert Pujols 35 2015 99.900 2 Alex Rodriguez 35 2011 113.520 1 Hank Aaron 35 1969 119.650 2 Mickey Mantle 35 1967 107.660 2 Willie Mays 35 1966 129.350 1 Mel Ott 35 1944 104.310 1 Joe DiMaggio 35 1950 75.230 2 Arky Vaughan 35 1947 72.400 2 Ted Williams 35 1954 93.720 2 Stan Musial 35 1956 108.210 1 Rickey Henderson 35 1994 98.900 1 Tom Seaver 35 1980 92.190 2 Roger Clemens 35 1998 101.000 2 Cal Ripken Jr. 35 1996 88.780 2 Barry Bonds 35 2000 111.410 1 Ed Delahanty 35 1903 69.680 2 Cy Young 35 1902 113.690 1 Tim Keefe 35 1892 85.810 1 Babe Ruth 35 1930 152.150 1 Rogers Hornsby 35 1931 125.220 2 Lou Gehrig 35 1938 112.670 1 Kid Nichols 35 1905 117.030 2 Honus Wagner 35 1909 96.500 2 Ty Cobb 35 1922 126.510 2 Walter Johnson 35 1923 146.090 1 Ty Cobb 36 1923 132.000 2 Walter Johnson 36 1924 153.540 1 Honus Wagner 36 1910 101.710 2 Kid Nichols 36 1906 116.060 2 George Davis 36 1907 82.340 2 Lou Gehrig 36 1939 112.410 1 Rogers Hornsby 36 1932 125.320 2 Babe Ruth 36 1931 162.470 1 Tim Keefe 36 1893 86.890 1 Cy Young 36 1903 121.950 1 Barry Bonds 36 2001 123.260 1 Alex Rodriguez 36 2012 115.750 1 Roger Clemens 36 1999 103.750 2 Tom Seaver 36 1981 96.540 1 Rickey Henderson 36 1995 101.790 1 Mike Schmidt 36 1986 99.250 2 Stan Musial 36 1957 114.300 2 Ted Williams 36 1955 100.640 2 Arky Vaughan 36 1948 72.920 1 Joe DiMaggio 36 1951 78.110 2 Jimmie Foxx 36 1944 95.510 2 Mel Ott 36 1945 108.830 1 Willie Mays 36 1967 133.700 1 Hank Aaron 36 1970 124.660 2 Albert Pujols 36 2016 101.190 2 Albert Pujols 37 2017 99.340 1 Alex Rodriguez 37 2013 116.070 1 Hank Aaron 37 1971 131.900 2 Willie Mays 37 1968 139.950 1 Jimmie Foxx 37 1945 96.600 2 Mel Ott 37 1946 107.890 1 Ted Williams 37 1956 106.690 2 Stan Musial 37 1958 118.420 2 Mike Schmidt 37 1987 105.360 1 George Brett 37 1990 87.950 2 Carl Yastrzemski 37 1977 89.560 1 Barry Bonds 37 2002 135.030 1 Rickey Henderson 37 1996 103.650 1 Cy Young 37 1904 131.580 1 Roger Connor 37 1895 81.600 2 Cap Anson 37 1889 71.210 2 Babe Ruth 37 1932 170.810 1 Rogers Hornsby 37 1933 126.500 2 Honus Wagner 37 1911 108.260 2 Nap Lajoie 37 1912 100.580 2 Ty Cobb 37 1924 137.410 2 Walter Johnson 37 1925 160.240 1 Ty Cobb 38 1925 143.090 2 Walter Johnson 38 1926 164.020 1 Honus Wagner 38 1912 116.280 1 Babe Ruth 38 1933 177.110 1 Rogers Hornsby 38 1934 126.830 2 Lefty Grove 38 1938 97.920 2 Nap Lajoie 38 1913 105.880 2 Roger Connor 38 1896 84.430 2 Cap Anson 38 1890 76.590 2 Cy Young 38 1905 138.840 1 Rickey Henderson 38 1997 105.250 1 Barry Bonds 38 2003 144.200 1 Roger Clemens 38 2001 113.900 2 Joe Morgan 38 1982 95.780 2 Tom Seaver 38 1983 98.280 2 George Brett 38 1991 88.350 1 Bert Blyleven 38 1989 94.330 2 Mike Schmidt 38 1988 107.190 1 Stan Musial 38 1959 118.700 2 Ted Williams 38 1957 116.350 1 Mel Ott 38 1947 107.800 1 Willie Mays 38 1969 143.020 1 Hank Aaron 38 1972 135.820 2 Carl Yastrzemski 38 1978 91.540 1 Frank Robinson 38 1974 106.270 2 Adrian Beltre 38 2017 93.380 2 Albert Pujols 38 2018 99.850 1 Adrian Beltre 39 2018 95.610 2 Albert Pujols 39 2019 100.280 1 Alex Rodriguez 39 2015 118.960 1 Frank Robinson 39 1975 107.180 2 Hank Aaron 39 1973 140.480 2 Willie Mays 39 1970 148.230 1 Stan Musial 39 1960 120.580 2 Ted Williams 39 1958 120.320 1 Bert Blyleven 39 1990 94.170 1 Mike Schmidt 39 1989 106.810 1 Tom Seaver 39 1984 102.330 1 Joe Morgan 39 1983 98.970 1 Carl Yastrzemski 39 1979 93.880 1 Roger Clemens 39 2002 116.580 2 Rickey Henderson 39 1998 107.540 1 Barry Bonds 39 2004 154.840 1 Roger Connor 39 1897 84.250 2 Cap Anson 39 1891 80.470 2 Nap Lajoie 39 1914 105.970 2 Lefty Grove 39 1939 104.730 2 Rogers Hornsby 39 1935 126.760 2 Babe Ruth 39 1934 182.200 1 Honus Wagner 39 1913 119.190 1 Cy Young 39 1906 140.700 1 Ty Cobb 39 1926 144.760 2 Walter Johnson 39 1927 164.290 1 Ty Cobb 40 1927 149.140 2 Cy Young 40 1907 148.270 1 Rogers Hornsby 40 1936 126.810 1 Babe Ruth 40 1935 182.400 1 Lefty Grove 40 1940 107.280 1 Honus Wagner 40 1914 122.690 1 Nap Lajoie 40 1915 107.650 2 Tris Speaker 40 1928 134.000 2 Cap Anson 40 1892 83.710 2 Barry Bonds 40 2005 155.420 1 Ken Griffey Jr. 40 2010 83.830 2 Rickey Henderson 40 1999 109.390 1 Roger Clemens 40 2003 120.590 2 Carl Yastrzemski 40 1980 94.690 1 Joe Morgan 40 1984 100.560 2 Tom Seaver 40 1985 107.370 1 George Brett 40 1993 88.650 2 Ted Williams 40 1959 120.090 1 Paul Waner 40 1943 72.250 2 Stan Musial 40 1961 123.220 1 Warren Spahn 40 1961 90.200 2 Hank Aaron 40 1974 142.540 1 Willie Mays 40 1971 154.570 1 Frank Robinson 40 1976 107.320 2 Alex Rodriguez 40 2016 117.780 1 Hank Aaron 41 1975 142.600 1 Willie Mays 41 1972 156.410 1 Stan Musial 41 1962 126.840 1 Warren Spahn 41 1962 96.010 2 Luke Appling 41 1948 69.430 2 Ted Williams 41 1960 123.130 1 Bert Blyleven 41 1992 94.420 1 Tom Seaver 41 1986 109.880 1 Carl Yastrzemski 41 1981 95.210 2 Rickey Henderson 41 2000 110.090 2 Roger Clemens 41 2004 125.930 2 Barry Bonds 41 2006 159.430 1 Cap Anson 41 1893 85.990 2 Nap Lajoie 41 1916 107.410 2 Honus Wagner 41 1915 128.300 1 Lefty Grove 41 1941 106.970 1 Rogers Hornsby 41 1937 126.990 1 Cy Young 41 1908 157.880 1 Ty Cobb 41 1928 151.040 1 Cy Young 42 1909 161.380 1 Honus Wagner 42 1916 130.860 1 Eddie Collins 42 1929 123.930 2 Cap Anson 42 1894 88.880 1 Barry Bonds 42 2007 162.800 1 Roger Clemens 42 2005 134.170 2 Greg Maddux 42 2008 106.570 1 Carl Yastrzemski 42 1982 96.550 1 Luke Appling 42 1949 74.430 1 Stan Musial 42 1963 128.150 1 Warren Spahn 42 1963 100.720 2 Willie Mays 42 1973 156.400 1 Hank Aaron 42 1976 143.010 1 Warren Spahn 43 1964 98.920 2 Steve Carlton 43 1988 90.220 2 Roger Clemens 43 2006 137.660 2 Cap Anson 43 1895 90.960 1 Eddie Collins 43 1930 123.960 2 Honus Wagner 43 1917 130.810 1 Cy Young 43 1910 163.640 1 Cy Young 44 1911 163.580 1 Cap Anson 44 1896 93.200 1 Roger Clemens 44 2007 139.200 2 Randy Johnson 45 2009 101.070 2 Ted Lyons 45 1946 70.700 2 Cap Anson 45 1897 94.270 1 Phil Niekro 46 1985 95.070 2 Phil Niekro 48 1987 95.870 2
Last edited by Ken; 01-08-2020, 12:28 AM.
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Flipping the question on its head and looking at the highest rank active WAR leaders who were <=27 we get the following top 10 (post 1900)
Code:Name Age Year WAR RANK Mike Trout 27 2019 72.510 2 Walter Johnson 27 1915 87.050 4 Mickey Mantle 27 1959 68.050 5 Mickey Mantle 26 1958 61.440 6 Walter Johnson 26 1914 74.650 6 Babe Ruth 26 1921 64.110 6 Babe Ruth 27 1922 70.390 6 Jimmie Foxx 27 1935 62.590 6 Rogers Hornsby 27 1923 63.650 7 C. Mathewson 27 1908 61.100 7
Last edited by Ken; 01-08-2020, 12:11 AM.
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Grouping by age, sorting by highest rank per year, the top performers by age since 1900 have been:
Code:Name Age Year WAR RANK Joe Nuxhall 15 1944 -0.160 403 Coonie Blank 16 1909 -0.040 358 Art Bader 17 1904 -0.030 267 Bob Feller 18 1937 4.400 184 Bob Feller 19 1938 9.530 132 Bob Feller 20 1939 19.190 75 Bob Feller 21 1940 29.050 45 Bob Feller 22 1941 37.250 33 Babe Ruth 23 1918 29.930 27 Noodles Hahn 23 1902 30.200 27 Babe Ruth 24 1919 39.830 14 Rogers Hornsby 25 1921 46.900 8 Babe Ruth 25 1920 51.580 8 Mickey Mantle 25 1957 52.760 8 Walter Johnson 26 1914 74.650 6 Babe Ruth 26 1921 64.110 6 Mickey Mantle 26 1958 61.440 6 Mike Trout 27 2019 72.510 2 Walter Johnson 28 1916 97.890 4 Mickey Mantle 28 1960 74.380 4 Walter Johnson 29 1917 105.880 2 Walter Johnson 30 1918 117.440 1
See told you this would be fun.Last edited by Ken; 01-08-2020, 12:28 AM.
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Some stats about 2019
Elvis Luciano has the 186th best WAR for a player of age 19
Juan Soto has the 26th best WAR for a player of age 20
Ronald Acuna Jr. has the 55th best WAR for a player of age 21
Ozzie Albies has the 115th best WAR for a player of age 22
Cody Bellinger has the 74th best WAR for a player of age 23
Carlos Correa has the 87th best WAR for a player of age 24
Francisco Lindor has the 71st best WAR for a player of age 25
Mookie Betts has the 33rd best WAR for a player of age 26
Mike Trout has the 3rd best WAR for a player of age 27
Nolan Arenado has the 109th best WAR for a player of age 28
Giancarlo Stanton has the 139th best WAR for a player of age 29
Chris Sale has the 123rd best WAR for a player of age 30
Clayton Kershaw has the 35th best WAR for a player of age 31
Andrew McCutchen has the 233rd best WAR for a player of age 32
Evan Longoria has the 138th best WAR for a player of age 33
Max Scherzer has the 109th best WAR for a player of age 34
Zack Greinke has the 60th best WAR for a player of age 35
Justin Verlander has the 66th best WAR for a player of age 36
Ian Kinsler has the 138th best WAR for a player of age 37
CC Sabathia has the 93rd best WAR for a player of age 38
Albert Pujols has the 24th best WAR for a player of age 39
Fernando Rodney has the 130th best WAR for a player of age 42
Ichiro Suzuki has the 9th best WAR for a player of age 45
**note, these are accumulated career WAR rankings based on a season of that *specific* age, so Ichiro has the 9th most career WAR of anyone who played in their 45 year old season. That does not include players who retired before 45 (the vast majority)
Trout has 2 WAR more than Ruth at age 27. The problem with the idea of Trout catching Ruth is that Ruth kept putting up big numbers all the way through age 39.Last edited by Ken; 01-08-2020, 01:17 AM.
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Originally posted by Ken View PostI am actually running a database query.In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.
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Originally posted by Ken View PostSome stats about 2019
Elvis Luciano has the 186th best WAR for a player of age 19
Juan Soto has the 26th best WAR for a player of age 20
Ronald Acuna Jr. has the 55th best WAR for a player of age 21
Ozzie Albies has the 115th best WAR for a player of age 22
Cody Bellinger has the 74th best WAR for a player of age 23
Carlos Correa has the 87th best WAR for a player of age 24
Francisco Lindor has the 71st best WAR for a player of age 25
Mookie Betts has the 33rd best WAR for a player of age 26
Mike Trout has the 3rd best WAR for a player of age 27
Nolan Arenado has the 109th best WAR for a player of age 28
Giancarlo Stanton has the 139th best WAR for a player of age 29
Chris Sale has the 123rd best WAR for a player of age 30
Clayton Kershaw has the 35th best WAR for a player of age 31
Andrew McCutchen has the 233rd best WAR for a player of age 32
Evan Longoria has the 138th best WAR for a player of age 33
Max Scherzer has the 109th best WAR for a player of age 34
Zack Greinke has the 60th best WAR for a player of age 35
Justin Verlander has the 66th best WAR for a player of age 36
Ian Kinsler has the 138th best WAR for a player of age 37
CC Sabathia has the 93rd best WAR for a player of age 38
Albert Pujols has the 24th best WAR for a player of age 39
Fernando Rodney has the 130th best WAR for a player of age 42
Ichiro Suzuki has the 9th best WAR for a player of age 45
**note, these are accumulated career WAR rankings based on a season of that *specific* age, so Ichiro has the 9th most career WAR of anyone who played in their 45 year old season. That does not include players who retired before 45 (the vast majority)
Trout has 2 WAR more than Ruth at age 27. The problem with the idea of Trout catching Ruth is that Ruth kept putting up big numbers all the way through age 39.
why are the war totals so very different between fangraphs and bb-ref?
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Originally posted by Art Vandelay View PostJ.Sickels posted his top 100 prospect list over at the athletic. no surprise, franco #1Its not what you've got. Its what you give.
Its not the life you choose. Its the life you live--TESLA
Princess Kate-Kate Marie Hrischuk 9/12/00-1/27/07
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Originally posted by Vecmizer View PostI really enjoy John's work but I am wondering if the The Athletic is worth it's subscription price. Anyone have any reviews good or bad??
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