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Keeper - Moncada vs. Sale

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  • #1

    Keeper - Moncada vs. Sale

    13 team..mixed...5x5..$300 budget..8 keepers

    Team A is out of it this season. He has Sale for $51 for 2018, $56 for 2019 and $61 in 2020

    Team B has Moncada who can be kept for $6 in 2018, $11 in 2019 and $16 in 2020.

    Would you deal Sale for Moncada if you were team A? Given the huge difference in salary is Moncada a better keeper?

    My opinion is that I would rather have Sale. As has been discussed, top tier SP are so much more valuable than all hitters. But is the risk of injury a mitigating factor at keeping Sale for that price for you?

    Thoughts?
    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."
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  • #2
    home runs
    stolen bases
    runs scored
    runs batted in

    I'd prefer to buy another hitter plus add a starting pitcher to a cheap moncada with the extra $45.

    Yes, sale is one of the best but he is, and I am only going off the eye test here in regards to salary, at the top of the salary scale in your league.

    At those salaries, Moncada all the way

    Comment

    • #3
      Agreed. I'd rather have Moncada at his salary. While top SPs are becoming incredibly valuable, there's still a greater chance of catastrophic injury with them than position players.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
        home runs
        stolen bases
        runs scored
        runs batted in

        I'd prefer to buy another hitter plus add a starting pitcher to a cheap moncada with the extra $45.

        Yes, sale is one of the best but he is, and I am only going off the eye test here in regards to salary, at the top of the salary scale in your league.

        At those salaries, Moncada all the way
        You can find many hitters on the WW every year who will outperform Moncada next year.

        As for the salary scale in the league for SP he would be the 4th most expensive keeper, so he is at the top.
        "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
          You can find many hitters on the WW every year who will outperform Moncada next year.

          As for the salary scale in the league for SP he would be the 4th most expensive keeper, so he is at the top.
          I suppose Yoan could take the Buxton route but I lean against that happening.

          Next year is almost assuredly the last 'healthy' year you "might" find someone better on the waiver wire. However, if in 2018 he plays full time and hits 15-20 home runs and steals 30 bases, which is entirely possible, there isn't going to be anyone on the waiver remotely close to Moncada.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
            I suppose Yoan could take the Buxton route but I lean against that happening.

            Next year is almost assuredly the last 'healthy' year you "might" find someone better on the waiver wire. However, if in 2018 he plays full time and hits 15-20 home runs and steals 30 bases, which is entirely possible, there isn't going to be anyone on the waiver remotely close to Moncada.
            In a 13 team mixed league there will be a few, if not more, WW pickups equal to his value.
            "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

            Comment

            • #7
              Sure, but (a) you have to be the guy who gets them, (b) you've probably missed at least some of their value while they were breaking out, and (c) I will take as many 15/30 guys as you want to give me. Maybe you're really good at waiver pickups and you got all of Pham and Hicks and Owings and Merrifield and Broxton (sigh) this year, but I'd be okay with having all of those guys plus Moncada if I had the choice.

              Having some "certainty" in your expensive keepers is nice, though I'm sure the people who kept Lester and Bumgarner and Verlander and Porcello and Hendricks and Cueto and Arrieta and Syndergaard and Happ and Tanaka from their great performances last year (all in the top 15 SPs according to ESPN) were getting some certainty and maybe are disappointed this year, and maybe Sale is on another level and is even more certain, but I think you have to feel like your team is really strong before keeping top-end guys at fair prices becomes appealing.
              In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by mjl View Post
                Sure, but (a) you have to be the guy who gets them, (b) you've probably missed at least some of their value while they were breaking out, and (c) I will take as many 15/30 guys as you want to give me. Maybe you're really good at waiver pickups and you got all of Pham and Hicks and Owings and Merrifield and Broxton (sigh) this year, but I'd be okay with having all of those guys plus Moncada if I had the choice.

                Having some "certainty" in your expensive keepers is nice, though I'm sure the people who kept Lester and Bumgarner and Verlander and Porcello and Hendricks and Cueto and Arrieta and Syndergaard and Happ and Tanaka from their great performances last year (all in the top 15 SPs according to ESPN) were getting some certainty and maybe are disappointed this year, and maybe Sale is on another level and is even more certain, but I think you have to feel like your team is really strong before keeping top-end guys at fair prices becomes appealing.
                I guess I always seem to prefer the proven vet over the unproven shiny new toy. And i think that paying top $$$ for studs offers a very good chance at competing for the title.
                "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                  i think that paying top $$$ for studs offers a very good chance at competing for the title.
                  oh, sure, you need to spend your entire budget effectively and getting a bunch of $15 players for $5 isn't enough. But unless all of the top talent is being kept, I don't feel like I usually need to expend keeper slots to lock in my ability to get a stud at his auction price. I guess it's possible that Sale specifically might go for more next year than he did this year because he has had quite a good season, but if I'd bought Kershaw or Scherzer or Goldschmidt or Trout or someone like that this year, I'd be pretty unlikely to keep them at $5 more next year.

                  (That said, in RJEL I am pretty likely to keep Scherzer and Greinke, but both of them were a bit underpriced this year. And I'd trade one of them for Moncada.)
                  In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mjl View Post
                    oh, sure, you need to spend your entire budget effectively and getting a bunch of $15 players for $5 isn't enough. But unless all of the top talent is being kept, I don't feel like I usually need to expend keeper slots to lock in my ability to get a stud at his auction price. I guess it's possible that Sale specifically might go for more next year than he did this year because he has had quite a good season, but if I'd bought Kershaw or Scherzer or Goldschmidt or Trout or someone like that this year, I'd be pretty unlikely to keep them at $5 more next year.

                    (That said, in RJEL I am pretty likely to keep Scherzer and Greinke, but both of them were a bit underpriced this year. And I'd trade one of them for Moncada.)
                    It also comes down to knowing your league and the size of the league (obviously). Trout was kept for $80 in my league. I kept Kershaw last year for $75. I would never trade Scherzer for Moncada going into next year..
                    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      8 keepers, you said. 23 man rosters? Keeping Trout or Kershaw at that price sounds like insanity unless your rosters are much smaller than usual, even if other people are doing it.
                      In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mjl View Post
                        8 keepers, you said. 23 man rosters? Keeping Trout or Kershaw at that price sounds like insanity unless your rosters are much smaller than usual, even if other people are doing it.
                        We start 11 hitters and 9 pitchers with a 4 man bench. So 24 man rosters. I have to disagree about it being insanity. In a 13 team league I believe in keeping studs. I paid $84 for Kershaw this year and currently sit in 1st place. But I have no delusions of winning this year.

                        It comes down to knowing your league and how to navigate the fantasy waters. I will tell you my finishes in the league, not for an ego trip, but to show that my strategy of valuing proven studs over shiny new toys works in my league. Now in another league I might not sniff the title. Who knows?

                        2012 - 2014 won league
                        2015 2nd place (5 points behind)
                        2016 2nd place (1.5 points behind)
                        "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          That salary structure is interesting. I have Moncada at $5 in a 10-team AL-only where that will be his salary for this year and next then he would be $10 in 2019-2020 before I have to throw him back. In that format there's no way I'd accept Sale for him at any price but if it's one where Mincada's salary immediately goes up it would give me pause. Either way I'd still prefer the Moncada side since that's a very high amount for a pitcher but I'd have to think about it.

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