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Dee Gordon's SP Trade Value

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  • #1

    Dee Gordon's SP Trade Value

    I've been stashing Dee Gordon for about a month since someone dropped him in my 10-team Yahoo H2H league with standard categories. I'm trying to gauge his value on the trade market for when he comes back and have been targeting SPs based on my team's needs. I'd prefer to do a 1-for-1 deal since I'm in a bit of a roster crunch as it is, and I'd admit that I discount Gordon's value somewhat in a H2H league because he's so dependent on the independent SB category (i.e., SBs generally don't relate to the other 4 hitting categories, other than maybe R).

    Looking through the SPs out there, it seems like there are a couple of general tiers among the better pitchers (no particularly order within tiers):

    1st Tier: Kershaw, Bumgarner, Scherzer, Fernandez, Strasburg, Arrieta, Syndergaard, Sale
    2nd Tier: Salazar, Kluber, Carrasco, Lester, DeGrom, Cueto, Price, Greinke, Hamels, Cole
    3rd Tier: Carlos Martinez, Pomeranz, Hill, Estrada, bunch of others

    I realize I'm not getting anyone from Tier 1 and I'm not particularly interested in Tier 3 for various reasons on each guy (injuries, track record, flukiness, etc.), so I've been focused on Tier 2 guys.

    Who of that group do you think I could get for Gordon straight up? Put another way, if you were the SP owner, which Tier 2 SPs would you consider giving up for Gordon straight up?

    If you owned Gordon, which of those Tier 2 guys would you be willing to give him up for?

    (I already own Kluber, Carrasco and Cole, so you can take those guys out of it)

    Thanks
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  • #2
    I have never played h2h so take my opinion with that in mind. Does h2h make Grdon more or less valuable than he is in Roto?

    I wouldn't trade any of the SP you have listed, including the Tier 3 guys, for Gordon.
    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
      I have never played h2h so take my opinion with that in mind. Does h2h make Grdon more or less valuable than he is in Roto?

      I wouldn't trade any of the SP you have listed, including the Tier 3 guys, for Gordon.
      Interesting. Why is that? Are you saying that you don't value Gordon highly (i.e., ignoring the suspension you wouldn't have drafted him where he was going ADP-wise) or that his value has been that diminished by the suspension and lack of playing?

      Re: H2H vs Roto - I personally discount SB-only guys because they don't help in other categories, but I think some people look at guys like Gordon as someone who can win you a category in a playoff week by himself. So it's unclear, I guess.

      Clarification: I'd be making these offers in 2 weeks right when his suspension ends, so my potential trade partner wouldn't be taking any 0's.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
        I have never played h2h so take my opinion with that in mind. Does h2h make Grdon more or less valuable than he is in Roto?

        I wouldn't trade any of the SP you have listed, including the Tier 3 guys, for Gordon.
        I agree with this. In H2H, stud pitchers are even more valuable than in roto because you cant build up a huge lead in anything and then deal from strength. You might be able to squeeze out one of those Tier 3 guys for Gordon, but certainly not until he comes back.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mjb887 View Post
          Interesting. Why is that? Are you saying that you don't value Gordon highly (i.e., ignoring the suspension you wouldn't have drafted him where he was going ADP-wise) or that his value has been that diminished by the suspension and lack of playing?

          Re: H2H vs Roto - I personally discount SB-only guys because they don't help in other categories, but I think some people look at guys like Gordon as someone who can win you a category in a playoff week by himself. So it's unclear, I guess.

          Clarification: I'd be making these offers in 2 weeks right when his suspension ends, so my potential trade partner wouldn't be taking any 0's.
          It just seems like he will really only help in one category and maybe two. The SP's listed help in 3 or 4 categories.
          "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Pauly View Post
            I agree with this. In H2H, stud pitchers are even more valuable than in roto because you cant build up a huge lead in anything and then deal from strength. You might be able to squeeze out one of those Tier 3 guys for Gordon, but certainly not until he comes back.
            The stud SPs are more valuable come playoff time in H2H, that's true. And you make a good point that you can't trade off of your built-up lead in H2H.

            Just a little curious why the draft wouldn't have played out that way then. The only SPs drafted ahead of Dee (I didn't draft him; he went in mid-3rd round) were Kershaw, Scherzer, Arrieta and Bumgarner. I believe the pre-season ADPs were generally similar to this so that's where I've been benchmarking it.

            Maybe it's just that SPs are discounted at draft time because of their propensity to blow out during the season (and be useless come playoff time), but their value steadily increases over the season as the playoffs approach?

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            • #7
              I have Gordon in a H2H league and he's far more valuable in roto than in H2H because his stats are cumulative and so you can fade a rough week or three easier than when he doesn't get the SBs you roster him for.


              he does still have avg going for him, but will he play enough ROS to have any value H2H? Again, I've had him on my team for 3 years and am not expecting him to do much upon his return--if he does, i'll move him quick, and TRY to get a solid return, but wouldn't GIVE one for him.
              If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

              Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
              Martin Luther King, Jr.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                It just seems like he will really only help in one category and maybe two. The SP's listed help in 3 or 4 categories.
                True, but counting categories like Ws and Ks can still be filled by lower tier or waiver wire SPs. The real value of stud SPs is that they can provide you the counting categories while still protecting/improving the ratios.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mjb887 View Post
                  Maybe it's just that SPs are discounted at draft time because of their propensity to blow out during the season (and be useless come playoff time), but their value steadily increases over the season as the playoffs approach?
                  Exactly. Pitcher are much more risky before the season starts, whereas now you know who the studs/duds are (ie Harvey, Greinke to an extent, etc.).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                    I have Gordon in a H2H league and he's far more valuable in roto than in H2H because his stats are cumulative and so you can fade a rough week or three easier than when he doesn't get the SBs you roster him for.


                    he does still have avg going for him, but will he play enough ROS to have any value H2H? Again, I've had him on my team for 3 years and am not expecting him to do much upon his return--if he does, i'll move him quick, and TRY to get a solid return, but wouldn't GIVE one for him.
                    This is pretty much my thinking as well. He's not the kind of player I draft; the only reason I own him as that someone dropped him and I've been stashing him to sell to someone once he comes back. Hoping to turn a final roster spot into an asset. Guess I'll just fire out some offers for the back end of the Tier 2 guys once he returns and hope something sticks.
                    Last edited by ; 07-14-2016, 01:55 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                      I have never played h2h so take my opinion with that in mind. Does h2h make Grdon more or less valuable than he is in Roto?

                      I wouldn't trade any of the SP you have listed, including the Tier 3 guys, for Gordon.
                      I agree 100% -- I wouldn't trade any of these pitchers listed for him, let alone any of the Tier 2 guys.

                      Who knows how rusty Gordon will be? Who knows what his playing time, with an effective Dietrich around, will be? Who even knows if he's still using whatever crap it is he was caught using?

                      Maybe after he's back and playing for a couple of weeks will you be able to have a better feel for an even-up comp.

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                      • #12
                        Update: I got Greinke for Gordon

                        Of course, the guy accepted the offer (which had been outstanding for several days) about an hour after Greinke's setback news so it's not ideal, but it's a H2H league so not a huge deal

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