Gentlemen and Hornsby :)

[Fresno Bob]

You are 100% correct

I don't know why he took the 1 on 1 conversation and posted it here in the first place. I found it extremely odd and asked him to stop, but it continued for some reason.

seems like it was done in post #40 and you are the one continuing....

[Daver]

Well said.

I can tell you right now what the value of Thor is in a keeper league: It's whatever someone will pay for him. End. Of. Story. Any other rationale as to why or why not he should or should not be included in any deal is merely obfuscating some real underlying problem inside one owner or another.

Once again, dead on. The issue has always been about the subjective value of the talent. Are you free to take over management of my league??

[revo]

Thanks guys for the responses and Yeah revo, I know cheap active studs are more valuable but how often do they actually get traded? Besides me dealing Franco and Schoop

And uhh, Jackie Bradley.......

[Ken]

seems like it was done in post #40 and you are the one continuing....

Nah, I was done way back on post #26 and yet it kept... going... on... No idea why. But thanks for your contribution!

[Mithrandir]

why dont you guys stop posting in here and have a 1 on 1 conversation. There is no good coming from this post.

Nah. Keep it here! It's entertaining and enlightening. Have you seen the dearth of threads here?

[Steve]

Nah. Keep it here! It's entertaining and enlightening. Have you seen the dearth of threads here?

Dearth of Threads would be a good name for a stripper.

[Midnight Otter]

Dearth of Threads would be a good name for a stripper.

Who left the door to the Sports Bar open and let Steve out?

[BuckyBuckner]

Who left the door to the Sports Bar open and let Steve out?

probably that jerk evets.

[The Dane]

Nothing is "ruining our league". The league I'm referring to is running quite well actually. No real issues.

Well, your league's dirty laundry was aired here. In fact, you kinda aired it. I have no problem with using this forum for that, but let's not pretend that it is not definitive proof that your league has issues, or at least one of them.

And any "collusion", while it has likely existed in leagues that I've been a part of in the past, would be close, if not impossible, to prove. Pretending it doesn't exist is sticking your head in the sand though.

There you go. Because I don't see the threat you see, I'm ignorant. Like you, I have a long history in fantasy baseball, but I guess I don't see as much collusion as you do. I do see tons of terrible owners making horrible deals all the time. I just don't chalk it up to collusion as quickly. Should these owners be removed for the good of the league? Probably. But that's not because of the deal. It's because they are bad owners.

And, I'm sorry, I can certainly encourage owners NOT to make these lopsided dump trades, because I know (from experience), that it will upset a lot of people -- they work hard to put together a good team and would likely end up outside the top few spots, not because they are bad at fantasy baseball, but because they didn't have a friend who dumped his whole team early. That's not fantasy baseball sorry, that's something else entirely.

I agree with you. That's a bad thing. And because you brought it up, I assume that's what you are accusing Doig of, right? Otherwise, how is that at all germane to this conversation? In the above sentence, you link two things together that shouldn't be together: dump trades and lousy owners. They are NOT the same thing.

It's odd how this got flipped around. I've talked to so many that hate fantasy dump trades, but apparently talking about it is taboo and we should pretend they don't exist. Seems silly.

You think that talking about fantasy dump trades are taboo!? Okay, now THAT was the first crazy thing you've said. At any given time, the front page of the Fantasy Baseball Forum is 1/4 to 1/3 posts of people talking about dump trades. It's probably the single most discussed topic on this board and has been for as long as I've been here, which is... a long damn time. No one is pretending they don't exist. I'm just claiming that they aren't as league-damaging as you assert.

I've been commish in this particular league for several years and it has run great. Never once have I had to veto a trade. All this theoretical garbage about how I'm a problem in this league is humorous though.

It's telling that your mark of a well-run league is one in which the commissioner never has to veto a trade. I'm not arguing with that notion, just saying that it says something about your thinking.

It seems you just enjoy attacking people based on false/incomplete information. You might want to consider not doing that without knowing the details.

Really, Ken, I didn't intend on attacking you directly. I don't really know you, and frankly, the extent of my experience with you is your masterful take on closers and the fact that people here vouch for you, and that's all good. I'm sorry about that. My first message was meant in a more collective sense and I really wasn't talking about you directly and I was hoping for a mic drop moment and it could just end. But then, your response just begged for more and I couldn't let it go and now I can see why you think I'm attacking you when I really didn't mean it.

Clearly, you know your stuff, and your valuation of players runs very similar to mine, but your take on dump trades is problematic, in my opinion. I get that you probably don't see it right now, but in order to get free of the frustration and consternation you feel around these types of deals, you're going to have to find out what part of yourself is so pained so that you can address that. It is never about the deal. It about the people.

[GwynnInTheHall]

And uhh, Jackie Bradley.......

Dude I dealt Bradley, castillo and freaking V velazquez for McCutchen in another league--i'm an Idiot.

[Ken]

Dude I dealt Bradley, castillo and freaking V velazquez for McCutchen in another league--i'm an Idiot.

I would have done that move too in your shoes, I think it was a wise move with the information you had at the time.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I would have done that move too in your shoes, I think it was a wise move with the information you had at the time.

I obviously needed more information

[Ken]

Well, your league's dirty laundry was aired here. In fact, you kinda aired it. I have no problem with using this forum for that, but let's not pretend that it is not definitive proof that your league has issues, or at least one of them.

If this is the worst thing that happens, we are doing great. Remember, all this was over a hypothetical trade that never even came close to happening. We have passionate owners who give a shit, in general, and we were running through the hypotheticals. I enjoyed the initial conversation but apparently that was not shared.

There you go. Because I don't see the threat you see, I'm ignorant.

Sorry for misunderstanding, but in no way did I intend to suggest that you are ignorant. I suggested that I'm not ever going to stick my head in the sand and ignore the fact that there can be collusion that goes on.

Like you, I have a long history in fantasy baseball, but I guess I don't see as much collusion as you do. I do see tons of terrible owners making horrible deals all the time. I just don't chalk it up to collusion as quickly. Should these owners be removed for the good of the league? Probably. But that's not because of the deal. It's because they are bad owners.

I have no doubt that your experience is vast, you are here discussing it after all. I dont think we find many new players on a board like this. The people posting here are smart and have played the game for a long time, no doubt.

I agree with you. That's a bad thing. And because you brought it up, I assume that's what you are accusing Doig of, right? Otherwise, how is that at all germane to this conversation? In the above sentence, you link two things together that shouldn't be together: dump trades and lousy owners. They are NOT the same thing.

The only thing I "accused" Doig of was misquoting me and running to this board to post this topic with information that didn't make sense based on the topic at hand due to some apparent miscommunications. I definitely did not accuse him of collusion, he has not even made a trade (the guy he was trading with had no interest, to my knowledge). We were always talking hypotheticals.

Then, on this board he suggested my head would "explode" if I knew about trades in another league, as if I couldn't handle his vastly superior league. That ruffled my feathers for sure.

But no, I did not, and I am not accusing Doig of collusion - he hasn't even made a trade to discuss involving these players...

You think that talking about fantasy dump trades are taboo!? Okay, now THAT was the first crazy thing you've said. At any given time, the front page of the Fantasy Baseball Forum is 1/4 to 1/3 posts of people talking about dump trades. It's probably the single most discussed topic on this board and has been for as long as I've been here, which is... a long damn time. No one is pretending they don't exist. I'm just claiming that they aren't as league-damaging as you assert.

fair!

It's telling that your mark of a well-run league is one in which the commissioner never has to veto a trade. I'm not arguing with that notion, just saying that it says something about your thinking.

Hmmm, no that's a bit of a flawed argument - I mentioned the vetos only because of the trade topic at hand, to make it clear we weren't going around vetoing trades. In no way was I suggesting that it's the "mark of a well-run league".

Really, Ken, I didn't intend on attacking you directly.

Again, fair, I apologize for misconstruing the discussion.

I don't really know you, and frankly, the extent of my experience with you is your masterful take on closers and the fact that people here vouch for you, and that's all good. I'm sorry about that. My first message was meant in a more collective sense and I really wasn't talking about you directly and I was hoping for a mic drop moment and it could just end. But then, your response just begged for more and I couldn't let it go and now I can see why you think I'm attacking you when I really didn't mean it.

Makes sense.

Clearly, you know your stuff, and your valuation of players runs very similar to mine

Thanks, and I agree on the similarities.

but your take on dump trades is problematic, in my opinion. I get that you probably don't see it right now, but in order to get free of the frustration and consternation you feel around these types of deals, you're going to have to find out what part of yourself is so pained so that you can address that. It is never about the deal. It about the people.

It's certainly about the people. But without the trades, the people aren't a problem.

I can agree to disagree with you here. I've been in a couple leagues that fell apart after dump trades - I was a spectator in both cases, I did not have eggs in either basket. It's sad to see something like that happen with a good league.

My issue with the trades revolves more around what it does to the league (people getting upset at each other, taking the fun out of it) vs my personal opinion, which is less important.

Without terrible dump trades, there are no people complaining about terrible dump trades. So we have a chicken-egg question. I'll leave it at that!

[Ken]

I obviously needed more information

You left your crystal ball in Texas?

[SeaDogStat]

dearth of threads would be a good name for a strip club band.

ftfy...