Gentlemen and Hornsby :)

[Hodor]

Glasnow has to be extended. To keep him three more years he'd cost 12

[Hornsby]

Glasnow has to be extended. To keep him three more years he'd cost 12

That's fine, the key is you MAY have a great pitcher for 12 bucks a year. Peanuts...

[mjl]

generally agree with Horns. I think Thor $10/2017 is fine for expiring Scherzer and Street - I don't love that deal for you tbh. Glasnow for Frazier and Marte is a bit much; if you combine the trades I think it's still a bit unbalanced but not something I'd complain about. For one of Frazier or Marte, I think it's fine.

[Sharky]

generally agree with Horns. I think Thor $10/2017 is fine for expiring Scherzer and Street - I don't love that deal for you tbh. Glasnow for Frazier and Marte is a bit much; if you combine the trades I think it's still a bit unbalanced but not something I'd complain about. For one of Frazier or Marte, I think it's fine.

What he said. Agree with this assessment.

[Ken]

generally agree with Horns. I think Thor $10/2017 is fine for expiring Scherzer and Street - I don't love that deal for you tbh. Glasnow for Frazier and Marte is a bit much; if you combine the trades I think it's still a bit unbalanced but not something I'd complain about. For one of Frazier or Marte, I think it's fine.

Removing one of the studs going to Doig would change it dramatically. Sure that kind of trade is closer to even yes.

[Hammer]

I also agree with Horns. Deal is certainly not laughable and actually pretty solid IMO.

[GwynnInTheHall]

This is the frustration I was speaking to.

Ken is in our RJ Staff league, Boxscore, and has a very solid respectable way of evaluating players--not the way I go about it but I see the merit. There's not a lot of value given to minor league players or picks.

then I'm in RJEL where Minor leaguers and picks outvalue the stud major leaguers on out of contention teams immersibly.

Bottomline is this.

I believe Thor at $10 should net me 2 studs. One to replace him this year and one for his next years value.

I'm being told that's unfair.

I don;t agree. Vehemently.

.

[chancellor]

Unless the commish - if I'm reading right, that's Ken - is blocking deals, I'm not sure what the argument is. He values your guys less than you do. No big deal. If I were dumping, I'd take the first deal and decline the second.

OTOH, I can see declining the first deal, too - there were these two other sure thing Mets pitchers...one has been a train wreck and the other good but not great. Being nervous about Mets pitchers is pretty legit.

[Ken]

This is the frustration I was speaking to.

Ken is in our RJ Staff league, Boxscore, and has a very solid respectable way of evaluating players--not the way I go about it but I see the merit. There's not a lot of value given to minor league players or picks.

then I'm in RJEL where Minor leaguers and picks outvalue the stud major leaguers on out of contention teams immersibly.

Bottomline is this.

I believe Thor at $10 should net me 2 studs. One to replace him this year and one for his next years value.

I'm being told that's unfair.

No, you aren't being told that at all. I said a trade where you take all the guys expiring contracts (he has 8) for a couple keepers would be terrible for the league. Not sure what is confusing about that.
You came up with the Thor for Scherzer/Street portion of it, leaving out everyone else... I have no idea why.

I don;t agree. Vehemently.

.

That is quite clear... But the odd thing is that you are mostly arguing with yourself. No one laughed at a Thor for Street/Scherzer deal and in fact I encouraged you to make smaller trades like that.

[Ken]

Unless the commish - if I'm reading right, that's Ken - is blocking deals, I'm not sure what the argument is. He values your guys less than you do. No big deal. If I were dumping, I'd take the first deal and decline the second.

OTOH, I can see declining the first deal, too - there were these two other sure thing Mets pitchers...one has been a train wreck and the other good but not great. Being nervous about Mets pitchers is pretty legit.

Heh, no deals have been blocked (and extremely unlikely that one ever would). Doig is freaking out over his own hypothetical trade.
There was no first deal or second deal. Doig asked another owner about taking on all his expiring contracts (a list which includes Frazier, Gardner, Marte, Cruz, Gordon, Scherzer, Street, Duda) for Thor (who has an expiring contract next year) and some smaller pieces -- and that owner and another talked to me about it and we had a good laugh. That's all.

[Ken]

I'm dropping this discussion - Doig hopefully you get some value for Thor this year, he's a great pitcher and certainly has some value to someone for next year if they aren't in it this year.

Good luck to you.

[revo]

then I'm in RJEL where Minor leaguers and picks outvalue the stud major leaguers on out of contention teams immersibly.

While I have had the fortune of being competitive for most of the last five or six seasons in RJEL, my first target when dumping was always stud major leaguers with cheap contracts. So I disagree with your statement, but of course, the dumper would have to pay far more for the major leaguer since he would also need to be replaced, and many don't have that to deal.

[GwynnInTheHall]

No, you aren't being told that at all. I said a trade where you take all the guys expiring contracts (he has 8) for a couple keepers would be terrible for the league. Not sure what is confusing about that.
You came up with the Thor for Scherzer/Street portion of it, leaving out everyone else... I have no idea why.



That is quite clear... But the odd thing is that you are mostly arguing with yourself. No one laughed at a Thor for Street/Scherzer deal and in fact I encouraged you to make smaller trades like that.

I'd rather not go quoting our emails to clear this up.

The deal was never about all one guys players for Thor and garbage as you responded. I thought I made that clear in the beginning and moved on, obviously didn;t as you kept going back to the all your player mantra.

it's an obvious miscommunication.

When I mentioned the Thor, Glasnow and Gallo for Marte, Frazier, Scherzer and Street you called it ridiculously bad and the type of thing that ruins leagues and referred to it repeatedly as a 4-1 deal (I can quote you if youd like). Gallo was just the first name off the top of my head--I could easily insert Brinson or Margot instead of Gallo and got the same reaction.


Consensus here seems to be the 2 for 4 without Gallo is a fair deal.


Thanks guys for the responses and Yeah revo, I know cheap active studs are more valuable but how often do they actually get traded? Besides me dealing Franco and Schoop

[The Dane]

As I get older, I seem to understand less and less why some leagues function perfectly well with crazy dump trades and some leagues implode. I'm in five keeper leagues, one being RJEL. In RJEL and three others, if the deal falls within the rules (under the cap, before the deadlines, etc) then there are ZERO complaints. In one of them, however, the first deal that even smells a little like a dump deal and everyone is howling and complaining and proclaiming that it's the ruination of the league. It's really a puzzling situation.

But I have come to this conclusion: Dump trades do not ruin leagues. There are many, many leagues that dump and have absolutely no problem with it. I'm in four of them. What ruins leagues are people who complain about dump trades. They stir up defensiveness and bad feelings and can continually point to the trade as the problem instead of their own preferences (insecurities?) of how things should be done, even though the deal falls within the rules. The truth is, it's never about the trade, unless the complaint is accompanied by an accusation of collusion.

If you aren't willing to accuse another owner of collusion, and the trade falls within the rules, and you still complain, YOU are the problem, and YOU are what ruins leagues.

[GwynnInTheHall]

As I get older, I seem to understand less and less why some leagues function perfectly well with crazy dump trades and some leagues implode. I'm in five keeper leagues, one being RJEL. In RJEL and three others, if the deal falls within the rules (under the cap, before the deadlines, etc) then there are ZERO complaints. In one of them, however, the first deal that even smells a little like a dump deal and everyone is howling and complaining and proclaiming that it's the ruination of the league. It's really a puzzling situation.

But I have come to this conclusion: Dump trades do not ruin leagues. There are many, many leagues that dump and have absolutely no problem with it. I'm in four of them. What ruins leagues are people who complain about dump trades. They stir up defensiveness and bad feelings and can continually point to the trade as the problem instead of their own preferences (insecurities?) of how things should be done, even though the deal falls within the rules. The truth is, it's never about the trade, unless the complaint is accompanied by an accusation of collusion.

If you aren't willing to accuse another owner of collusion, and the trade falls within the rules, and you still complain, YOU are the problem, and YOU are what ruins leagues.

I think I love you.........