Rostering Bad Citizens...

[Gregg]

I believe we have had this discussion on the old site. The Chapman deal made me think of it again.

Would you roster bad Citizens on your fantasy teams? Wife beaters, PED users, gamblers, drunks, etc.

My answer is yes as long as I believe the stats will help my team. That answer is quite different than if I owned a real baseball team. In fact it is just the opposite.

How about you?

[Vecmizer]

I will buy anyone at my right price; it's just my price may be significantly lower than most. Thus I rarely end up with them on my roster.

[Hornsby]

I've always had guys that I wouldn't roster for various reasons, mostly just because I believe that they're very bad guys in real life. Like Vec, if Barry Bonds fell into my lap during his prime, I wouldn't go past 5 bucks for him...

[Grinch]

Not me, I roster the numbers not the players. If I get a bad guy on my team, fine (I'm just careful not to publicly root for him)

[The Dane]

This is so silly.

The overwhelming majority of these guys are millionaires who don't give a shit about you or anyone you care about and if you met them in real life, you'd be shocked at their sense of entitlement. Most have done things that would make them bad characters in your mind. Some just cover it up better than others. If you want to fill your fantasy roster with the 5-10% of normal-guy sort of professional athlete and forsake the rest, go right ahead.

Seems silly to me to make decisions based on such limited information. You don't know these guys. You only know Chapman is a wife-beater because some other guy broke the story. I guarantee you there are probably 50 more guys who have beaten their wives playing in baseball right now who have just covered it up better. There are liars and cheats and abusers and callous asshole multi-millionaires who care only about themselves. But, you can suspend your disbelief as long as some other dude doesn't break the story.

I can't judge people on their character unless I know their character, and I don't know a single MLB player personally. I've read articles about them, but those are coming from someone else's point of view, and I don't REALLY know them, like I know the people in my life. I know that people make mistakes, some of which can never be forgiven, but I don't feel comfortable judging people on such specious information. If you are comfortable with that, good for you.

That said, I'm out at $8 on Chapman.

[Gregg]

This is so silly.

The overwhelming majority of these guys are millionaires who don't give a shit about you or anyone you care about and if you met them in real life, you'd be shocked at their sense of entitlement. Most have done things that would make them bad characters in your mind. Some just cover it up better than others. If you want to fill your fantasy roster with the 5-10% of normal-guy sort of professional athlete and forsake the rest, go right ahead.

Seems silly to me to make decisions based on such limited information. You don't know these guys. You only know Chapman is a wife-beater because some other guy broke the story. I guarantee you there are probably 50 more guys who have beaten their wives playing in baseball right now who have just covered it up better. There are liars and cheats and abusers and callous asshole multi-millionaires who care only about themselves. But, you can suspend your disbelief as long as some other dude doesn't break the story.

I can't judge people on their character unless I know their character, and I don't know a single MLB player personally. I've read articles about them, but those are coming from someone else's point of view, and I don't REALLY know them, like I know the people in my life. I know that people make mistakes, some of which can never be forgiven, but I don't feel comfortable judging people on such specious information. If you are comfortable with that, good for you.

That said, I'm out at $8 on Chapman.

It may be silly but that does not mean it does not merit discussion.

I agree with everything you have stated except I am going well past $8 on Chapman.

[Hornsby]

This is so silly.

The overwhelming majority of these guys are millionaires who don't give a shit about you or anyone you care about and if you met them in real life, you'd be shocked at their sense of entitlement. Most have done things that would make them bad characters in your mind. Some just cover it up better than others. If you want to fill your fantasy roster with the 5-10% of normal-guy sort of professional athlete and forsake the rest, go right ahead.

Seems silly to me to make decisions based on such limited information. You don't know these guys. You only know Chapman is a wife-beater because some other guy broke the story. I guarantee you there are probably 50 more guys who have beaten their wives playing in baseball right now who have just covered it up better. There are liars and cheats and abusers and callous asshole multi-millionaires who care only about themselves. But, you can suspend your disbelief as long as some other dude doesn't break the story.

I can't judge people on their character unless I know their character, and I don't know a single MLB player personally. I've read articles about them, but those are coming from someone else's point of view, and I don't REALLY know them, like I know the people in my life. I know that people make mistakes, some of which can never be forgiven, but I don't feel comfortable judging people on such specious information. If you are comfortable with that, good for you.

That said, I'm out at $8 on Chapman.

I've been in a lot of professional locker rooms in my life, and most of the guys are decent people. I'd say that at least 75% are folks that would sit down and have a beer with you at the airport, and you'd never know that they were professional athletes. Your 5-10% figure of normal guys is WAY off in my experience.

Good guys in order of sports are:

Hockey - by far the most down to earth guys.
Baseball - Mostly good guys until they've played for several years, then the entitlement sets in.
Basketball - A bunch of children who've never grown up...they all should be put on an allowance.
Football - Pretty much what you'd expect, the stars are almost always total assholes, and the rest of them have been catered to all of their lives, and act as such. They do their job with the media, until they don't want to. Every locker room I've been in has areas that are off-limits, and some guys use those spots religiously.

[Hodor]

First and foremost I don't consider drunks and gamblers bad citizens.

Heck, I don't even know how to begin to address this post, I mean I get what you're looking for, but the premise is to broad and thus inaccurate to a degree.

I'll assume you mean those involved in criminal and unethical behavior and go from there.

My answer is, No.

I once wrote an article for this site back in the day regarding drafting Rob Dibble. My thoughts were that people like him should be removed from the pool of available players. But that was then, now I believe that it is up to you and your conscience.


Personally, I can build a winning roster without players like that and I know others in every one of my leagues will still pay the going rate for these bad citizens regardless. So I can act to my conscience and move on.

[Gregg]

First and foremost I don't consider drunks and gamblers bad citizens.

Heck, I don't even know how to begin to address this post, I mean I get what you're looking for, but the premise is to broad and thus inaccurate to a degree.

I'll assume you mean those involved in criminal and unethical behavior and go from there.

My answer is, No.

I once wrote an article for this site back in the day regarding drafting Rob Dibble. My thoughts were that people like him should be removed from the pool of available players. But that was then, now I believe that it is up to you and your conscience.


Personally, I can build a winning roster without players like that and I know others in every one of my leagues will still pay the going rate for these bad citizens regardless. So I can act to my conscience and move on.

For a guy who didn't know how to begin to address this point; you did a pretty good job.

It seems every year we get a famous ball player getting a DUI. That is why I included them. Gambler I included because Baseball really hates that.

I believe by experience that some players actually do go a few bucks cheaper. That is why I posted this. More so than injured players.

I appreciate your response. My conscience is not connected to rostering bad citizens but some are.

[GwynnInTheHall]

For a guy who didn't know how to begin to address this point; you did a pretty good job.

It seems every year we get a famous ball player getting a DUI. That is why I included them. Gambler I included because Baseball really hates that.

I believe by experience that some players actually do go a few bucks cheaper. That is why I posted this. More so than injured players.

I appreciate your response. My conscience is not connected to rostering bad citizens but some are.

It's a personal choice as you know. Though being a drinker and a gambler and working in an industry where I interact with both daily, I don't see them as any better or worse than others who don't do either.

I would be interested in a thread regarding the importance (or un-importance) of using every dollar of your budget to the Nth degree of value. Does the dollar you save rostering a Chapman really make a difference?

[james33]

I agree with you, Gregg, for fantasy, I don't apply a moral lens to who I grab for my team.

In fact, I tend to roster "bad citizens" because I'm a bit of a risktaker and I'm cynical enough to believe that most times, multi-millionaire athletes will get away with alleged crimes.

So while other owners discount "bad citizens" with recent legal trouble, and their draft position/auction price reflects that risk, I tend to not discount them as much...and as a result, I end up with a lot of them.

[heyelander]

Your 5-10% figure of normal guys is WAY off in my experience.

Seriously, in a post that that includes a line about not knowing a person's character until you've met them, assuming 85% are assholes seems contradictory.

As for me, I don't even like to roster Yankees because I don't want to root for them.

[Gregg]

It's a personal choice as you know. Though being a drinker and a gambler and working in an industry where I interact with both daily, I don't see them as any better or worse than others who don't do either.

I would be interested in a thread regarding the importance (or un-importance) of using every dollar of your budget to the Nth degree of value. Does the dollar you save rostering a Chapman really make a difference?

I would hope that no one reading my post thinks I am pointing fingers or making value judgments on individuals. My purpose was to open up a discussion on dollar values at auction. Does the perceptions of character influence anyone in here or in their auctions when it comes to bidding?

I believe that it does and was wondering about others experiences. In my particular case I try to use it for getting bargains.

I do not leave money on the table. Most of the time at the end of auctions I am at 0 or 1. Every dollar matters.

[revo]

Unless they're in danger of a lengthy suspension, I couldn't care less.

[The Dane]

Seriously, in a post that that includes a line about not knowing a person's character until you've met them, assuming 85% are assholes seems contradictory.

Fair enough.

I'll admit... I really don't like the super rich. I know I have a... thing.

In my experience, most rich people are assholes and most regular people so dearly want to be like them that they have selective perception. They ask for an autograph and think the guy is a good guy when he gives it, ignoring the fact that they just gave value to the ink from the dude's pen scrawled quickly. They praise a guy who merely isn't a monster and ignore the fact that they hold them to a much lower standard than they do regular folks. Money changes the rich AND the masses that come in contact with them.

This is why I never ask for autographs. Screw that. I'm a teacher. That millionaire player should be asking for MY autograph.