Taking carrot away, large league w/small # winners

[gcstomp]

Typical league is an only, 12 tm, top 4 get in the money. I would think that is standard from my experience, maybe 5th place team gets something in some leagues. The bottom 1/3rd in that format would typically be the ones looking at rebuild opportunities. The middle 1/3rd have hope of getting to the carrot, which is the top 1/3rd, or top 4 prize money.

What would happen in a much larger league, say an 18 team mixed, where we throw off the ratio, and take away the carrot for the top 1/3rd standard, which would be top 6 teams in the money?> How about we make it ultra cut throat and say out of 18 teams, finishing in top 1/3rd isnt good enough to be a money team, you need to be in top 22%, in other words, top 4 out of 18 teams. What would you guess that would do to typical trading dynamic?

Cant change title, of course it should read small number, not smakk # winners.

[gcstomp]

From my experience and observation, the more hope that teams have to finish in the money, the less dumping will take place. Take away the hope, the chance to get the carrot, you build in the new prize, get the best rebuild targets early, before the others with little shot of getting in the money, get "your" guy. Conversely, want to push back the rebuilders to later in year, open the top money to more than standard ratio of top 1/3rd. Maybe have a system where top 50% teams pay x league fee, bottom 50% pay +$10 per team, or whatever incentive may offer hope to a larger percent of league.

[TranaGreg]

ahhh, I thought that was a hashtag ... #smakk ... I'm going to go check that, could be interesting ...

anyway, I'm curious what people say to this as well - until this year I had only been in only 12 team leagues like you started with. I suspect a few more dumpers will make it more of a buyers market, but it also depends on how tight or spread out the middle tier is.

[mjl]

In RJEL (18-team mixed, top 4 paid), for that reason as well as others the dumping happens early and often. A couple weeks ago I was talking to another team that was about tied with me in the standings (around 8th-9th place) and he was already in full dump mode. Granted the top couple of teams this year are quite good, though some of that is because they've already taken advantage of a dump trade or two.

[gcstomp]

I dont get hash tags, or where you look em up, or how you use them. You google them? Whatever, no hashing for me. BTW, I dont think dumping is bad, its just a different type of play, and I dont think it is terrible to take a look at what are the mechanics that ensure early and deep rebuilding efforts.

[The Dane]

From my experience and observation, the more hope that teams have to finish in the money, the less dumping will take place. Take away the hope, the chance to get the carrot, you build in the new prize, get the best rebuild targets early, before the others with little shot of getting in the money, get "your" guy. Conversely, want to push back the rebuilders to later in year, open the top money to more than standard ratio of top 1/3rd. Maybe have a system where top 50% teams pay x league fee, bottom 50% pay +$10 per team, or whatever incentive may offer hope to a larger percent of league.

This is sorta true. It's kinda like saying that people who go through chemo die of cancer less frequently than people who don't. However, people without cancer die of cancer at a MUCH lower rate.

You want to greatly reduce dumping, because dumping is the bane of your existence? Remove the money altogether or make it a redraft league. If you have a keeper money league you WILL have dumping and some years more of it. The only way around it in that situation is to remove parity as much as you can. If the first place team has 120 pts., and second place has 110 pts., and third-sixth are all bunched at 60 pts., and only the first two spots get money, well then, expect zero dumping.

So, if you have a keeper money league that encourages parity, you are begging for dump trades. It's the natural human reaction to that situation. Giving more teams a piece of the money may affect things in a very minor way, but you shouldn't expect it to solve all your problems.

[mjl]

I dont get hash tags, or where you look em up, or how you use them. You google them? Whatever, no hashing for me. BTW, I dont think dumping is bad, its just a different type of play, and I dont think it is terrible to take a look at what are the mechanics that ensure early and deep rebuilding efforts.

oh, sure, I don't have a problem with it in principle, but if you have 10 teams dumping by May, that's over half your league not particularly looking at box scores and mostly tuning in for the FAAB run each week. There are a lot of other factors in RJEL that make dumping particularly effective/important, so there's a lot of it and some of the trades sound a bit insane if you're not accustomed to how the league works. I suspect it means there's also a lot of fluidity in the year-to-year standings, so that's probably good though.

[gcstomp]

Dane, I dont think I even hinted that dumping is bad, never mind "bane of your existence". Personally, I love to build towards something, if I am not going for the win, I am actively trying to improve my next years outlook. I tried to open this thread to touch on the whys of it all, based on my experience, and was hoping to hear other views. I think the cancer analogy falls flat, and laid out what I believe are the mechanics of why and when a league goes hard rebuild, without any kind of shut your mouth judgement on my part.

[gcstomp]

I am in the new league Chris started, a 16 tm mixed keeper. My hitting rocks, my pitching sucks, so I am floating around mid pack. No one has gone rebuild yet. I suspect its because we havent done our farm draft, plus we all started on equal footing, so this year in particular what are you rebuilding from? The outlook will be muddy next year when we have the cheap keepers and elite farm prospects in the mix.

Its also dirt cheap. I dont know what entrance fee was, but it was very low, I want to say $60? If it was say $150 or $300, I bet there would be way more maneuvering to make sure you generate plus cash flow long term, which would mean rebuilding.

[The Dane]

Dane, I dont think I even hinted that dumping is bad, never mind "bane of your existence". Personally, I love to build towards something, if I am not going for the win, I am actively trying to improve my next years outlook. I tried to open this thread to touch on the whys of it all, based on my experience, and was hoping to hear other views. I think the cancer analogy falls flat, and laid out what I believe are the mechanics of why and when a league goes hard rebuild, without any kind of shut your mouth judgement on my part.

I'm sorry. I certainly wasn't inferring that you hated dumping. Now, that I read what I wrote in haste, I can see how it came out that way. This was kind of a general crazy old man rant at imaginary arguments. My bad.

[madducks]

In my local 14 team mixed league with a $75 entry fee, before we divide winnings among the top 4 (50/25/15/10%) we pay out $25 for each of the 10 stat category winners. Granted the top four win most of these, but there are usually 2 or 3 categories that the other teams have a chance at winning. It makes for a little bit of a consolation prize and helps to maintain the interest of teams that are out of contention in the second half.