2015 Hall of Fame Induction

[onejayhawk]

My sense is that Bagwell's problem isn't his flyover country team but rather that some people assume he took PEDs. Amazing.

Which is silly. PED guys have big production spikes. Bagwell was Mr. Consistency.

Yeah, especially considering Biggio just got yesterday....

Bagwell is qualified, but Biggio was better.

J

[Judge Jude]

I-Rod won't waltz in while Piazza waits - he has way more PED claims against him than Piazza.

3 SPs got elected this year - Schilling and Mussina will move up next year.

Hoffman the real wild card.

[Pogues]

Griffey & Piazza will get in next year, with Raines moving up another 10% to the 65% level. 2016 is Trammell's last year on the ballot, and he only stands with 25%, so he's done for.

Raines will get elected in 2017 with Pudge & Bags.

Chipper & Thome will get elected in 2018.

I think it will take awhile for Schilling, Moose & Edgar to gain any serious traction, and they'll have to wait perhaps until the next decade.

2018? Better get my plans in place to hit Cooperstown for that induction.

[Archon]

Which is silly. PED guys have big production spikes. Bagwell was Mr. Consistency.

J

Generally true of the marginal/ average talents outed for or wildly obvious of steroid use that made them into elite players for a short duration like Paul Loduca, Brett Boone ( so god damned obvious even if never caught) Brad Fulmer, ken camineti , Brady Anderson.

Meanwhile elite natural talents known or heavily suspected of steroid use often started out as monsters and sustained long consistent careers of production. Think Canseco, McGwire, Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez, Manny, A-Rod, Clemens , Brian Giles, and Ivan Rodriguez.

Consistency has never been a good predictor of natural vs enhanced.

[Pauly]

I always find it more fun and interesting to look at the guys who only got 1-2 votes....this year's class:
Aaron Boone 2
Tom Gordon 2
Darin Erstad 1

Erstad...that's gotta be his brother voting, right?

[Judge Jude]

Troy Percival got 4

[Moonlight J]

I always find it more fun and interesting to look at the guys who only got 1-2 votes....this year's class:
Aaron Boone 2
Tom Gordon 2
Darin Erstad 1

Erstad...that's gotta be his brother voting, right?

One of the Boone votes is a great story that I can live with. It came from Hal McCoy, who is blind. Boone convinced McCoy to stick with the job even though he was legally blind.

The first day of that spring training in 2003, without a good eye, was a disaster. He had to out-wait everybody at the luggage carousel because he couldn't tell which bag was his. He was lost in the Sarasota airport. When he stumbled into the clubhouse for the first time, "I suddenly couldn't recognize the faces of guys I'd known for years. And I'm thinking, 'How can I cover a baseball team when I can't see?'"McCoy was looking like a wrinkled pile of laundry with a person in it. Naturally, Boone figured it was a perfect time to give him crap.
"What happened to you?" Boone asked with a grin.
McCoy shuffled in the direction of the voice.
"Aaron, I think this is the last time you'll see me for a long time," McCoy said. "Both my eyes are gone. I have to quit."
Boone took him by the shoulders and sat him down in his chair.
"I don't want to hear you say 'quit' again," Boone said, sternly. "That's not a good enough reason to quit. You're too good at your job to quit. You're still too young. We'll help you. We'll get it figured out."

[onejayhawk]

New article at Fangraphs http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/my-tw...f-fame-voting/

In a nutshell, BBWAA voters, jaded by a fairly lengthy period at the beginning of the century that featured a dearth of exceptional Hall of Fame candidates, fell into a habit of placing an average of five to six names on their respective ballots. Enter a massive group of Hall-worthy talents beginning in 2010 — many of them tarred with the brush of the steroid era — and the BBWAA initially reacted by… continuing to place an average of five to six names on their respective ballots. Hilariously, in 2010, the average number of players per ballot plunged to a 21st Century low of 5.10. That, despite the initial eligibility of Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez and Fred McGriff.

In 2013, the crunch began in earnest, with the largest influx of talent ever to appear on the Hall of Fame ballot. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds, among the very best at their respective crafts, appeared for the first time, along with Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa and Kenny Lofton, the latter of whom was unable to garner 5% of the vote necessary to remain on the ballot. Now this was a problem, and the BBWAA responded by matching their highest votes per ballot rate of the century, at 6.60.

J

[Judge Jude]

One of the Boone votes is a great story that I can live with. It came from Hal McCoy, who is blind. Boone convinced McCoy to stick with the job even though he was legally blind.

great reason to write a lovely column in tribute. not an excuse to ignore the rules of the Hall that you say you agreed to but then decided you're too important.

well-intentioned blunders are still blunders. It's not about you, Hal, it's about the game and it's about the fans.

[Moonlight J]

Rick Gosselin has a vote. He hasn't actively covered baseball since the 80's, but he has one. He was on radio to yesterday to "explain" why he didn't vote for Pedro.

"I am very judicious about who I put on as a 1st ballot guy. Pedro, for me, was not an exceptional pitcher"

Casey Stern - "Rick, give me a few pitchers that pitched in his era that were better"

(5 second pause)

"I can't answer that question"

Understand, he voted for Smoltz as a 1st timer and did not vote for Pedro.

[Piney Boy]

Rick Gosselin has a vote. He hasn't actively covered baseball since the 80's, but he has one. He was on radio to yesterday to "explain" why he didn't vote for Pedro.

"I am very judicious about who I put on as a 1st ballot guy. Pedro, for me, was not an exceptional pitcher"

Casey Stern - "Rick, give me a few pitchers that pitched in his era that were better"

(5 second pause)

"I can't answer that question"

Understand, he voted for Smoltz as a 1st timer and did not vote for Pedro.

I heard some of this. It was extremely hard to listen to. He came off really bad in the interview.

[chancellor]

Rick Gosselin has a vote. He hasn't actively covered baseball since the 80's, but he has one. He was on radio to yesterday to "explain" why he didn't vote for Pedro.

"I am very judicious about who I put on as a 1st ballot guy. Pedro, for me, was not an exceptional pitcher"

He's damn lucky Casey Stern was interviewing him. I'd have made sure he left with two more rectums than he came in with after a half-wit statement like that.

Gosselin makes Curt Schilling look like a mental giant by comparison.

[Pogues]

Rick Gosselin has a vote. He hasn't actively covered baseball since the 80's, but he has one. He was on radio to yesterday to "explain" why he didn't vote for Pedro.

"I am very judicious about who I put on as a 1st ballot guy. Pedro, for me, was not an exceptional pitcher"

Casey Stern - "Rick, give me a few pitchers that pitched in his era that were better"

(5 second pause)

"I can't answer that question"

Understand, he voted for Smoltz as a 1st timer and did not vote for Pedro.

If I was a Baseball writer with a vote, and was in the school of thought of 1st timer vs. everyone else was important, I would not vote for Pedro in the first ballot, either. Helluva pitcher, but a gap from him to the very best.

Having said that, I don't think that way, and I'd probably vote for 10 each time and the best 10. And Pedro was in the top 10 this time around.

[Moonlight J]

If I was a Baseball writer with a vote, and was in the school of thought of 1st timer vs. everyone else was important, I would not vote for Pedro in the first ballot, either. Helluva pitcher, but a gap from him to the very best.

Having said that, I don't think that way, and I'd probably vote for 10 each time and the best 10. And Pedro was in the top 10 this time around.

What gap?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_P.shtml

[Judge Jude]

actually JAWS helps Pogues's case, doesn't it? I think he's saying he wouldn't vote in a guy between Gaylord Perry and Robin Roberts on the first ballot (that is a different argument, though)

Pedro IP totals, even relative to his league and era, are the worst of all super-top-flight SPs
doesn't mean he's not an all-time great, just a tiny bit overrated by those who only look at rate
the extra 1 IP per game he wasn't pitching was basically the 7th or 8th, after 100 pitches, when the other guys were still pitching (even his great contemporaries), and at times he missed starts that they didn't

of course, he looks like almost the best ever without the ding, so it doesn't exactly drop him into the abyss, lol