the dumbest thing I've read in 2015

[onejayhawk]

You think? I'd bet against Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sheffield, Sosa, etc. ever getting into the Hall.

You cannot realistically describe the era without the best LF in history of the game. I would be willing to give them a black mark, but not a black ball.

I would also put Joe Jackson in, not just his bat. If you want them to die first, it's OK by me (see Rose, Peter). Jackson was banned for life, but he's dead man.

Bagwell did 100, 30, 100 six years in a row--in the Astrodome. He's easily over the HoF indicator numbers. I would do him well before Delgado.

J

[Moonlight J]

this was a deep class. I think many voters felt Unit & Pedro were slam dunks, so they could afford to pass up their vote to vote for other candidates.

Yes, but they should not have to. The limit of 10 is overkill with the 75% plateau in place.

[revo]

Yes, but they should not have to. The limit of 10 is overkill with the 75% plateau in place.

The BBWAA petitioned the Hall to expand the vote maximum from 10 sometime last year, so at this point it's in the Hall's court.

[Moonlight J]

The BBWAA petitioned the Hall to expand the vote maximum from 10 sometime last year, so at this point it's in the Hall's court.

Yes, they requested 12 rather than no limit. Why there's a limit is still unclear. Idelson was on MLB radio yesterday and maintained the current process "works incredibly well" so I don't expect the HOF will accept the recommendation.

It doesn't get any better next year. This is who is on the ballot next year. Good luck comfortably picking 10:

Bonds
Clemens
Griffey (1st)
Mussina
Schilling
Bagwell
Walker
Trammell
Raines
Edgar
McGwire
Edmonds (1st)
Sheffield
Piazza
Soser
Kent
McGriff
Nomar (survived threshold)
Smith (final year)
Hoffman (1st)
Wagner (1st)


A monkey could easily fill a ballot and leave off deserving candidates.

[revo]

I think you're wrong. Big Mac showed his bottle of Andro to reporters on camera, for god's sake. It sure seems from what I've read that steroids were absolutely everywhere, even getting dispensed by team trainers and the like.

You're correct that Big Mac had andro sitting on his locker shelf in front of throngs of reporters during the '98 chase. But in 1998, you could also walk into your local Vitamin Shoppe and pick up a bottle, if you so desired. At the time, it was just considered a supplement (except by the far more in the loop IOC, which had already banned it). I think when talking about steroids or PEDs of that era, we're talking more about injecting drugs or buying them in back alleys from shady dealers, not the over-the-counter supplements which I'm sure virtually every professional athlete was taking.

As far as what's banned and what isn't, hey, they could use the far more tougher IOC's list, but the MLBPA stonewalled that years ago in order to protect player's "privacy."

And as late as '04, the MLBPA still didn't even consider andro to be much of anything:
"[MLBPA COO Gene] Orza cited two national studies on androstenedione, a steroid precursor. One done at Iowa State University concluded that the supplement, when taken in doses suggested by the manufacturer, does not increase muscle mass. The other study, jointly commissioned by the league and the union, concluded that if a person takes more than the suggested dosage, andro could increase muscle mass.

"You can take two aspirin, you can take 40, but should we in fact regulate aspirin sales more than we do now, because if you exceed the recommended dosage, it will have harmful effects?" Orza asked."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1752773

[onejayhawk]

On the subject of jerks:

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/1/6/7500785/the-best-baseball-jerks-left-out-of-cooperstown

J

[Erik]

I had to look up the word belie because I thought I had the wrong definition. I did not.

Your argument belie.

[Silentmist]

I'm still trying to figure out why it took them 8 years to elect Andre Dawson into the hall. That made me lose all faith in their electoral process.

Members of the 400/300 club.
- Barry Bonds
- Willie Mays
- Alex Rodriguez
- Andre Dawson

Yeah, no reason why those guys should get in. As far as steroids are concerned, unless they had a positive test from MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, then it shouldn't be held against them. Hand written ledgers and hearsay etc. is a load of crap. Unless of course you want to go all the way back to the '60's when they were introduced into professional sports and take out anyone with 50+ home runs... you know, like that Mantle kid.

Bonds and Pete should both be in, I mean, no one ever has a problem with Gaylord Perry being in do they? He was a well known cheater.

[onejayhawk]

Perry's reputation may have effected the vote, even significantly. We know it took three ballots and he was highly qualified.

J

[Judge Jude]

"I'm still trying to figure out why it took them 8 years to elect Andre Dawson into the hall."

A lot of observers wonder how he ever got in, with a .279 average and dismal career high in walks of 44 (!).
Andre is 23rd all-time in Outs Made, 43rd in HR, 51st in Hits, and 151st in SB. You don't want Outs to be your signature stat.

I loved watching the Hawk play, especially RF in Wrigley from the bleachers. But hard to imagine that being the guy one thinks waited too long to get into the Hall.

[Silentmist]

"I'm still trying to figure out why it took them 8 years to elect Andre Dawson into the hall."

A lot of observers wonder how he ever got in, with a .279 average and dismal career high in walks of 44 (!).
Andre is 23rd all-time in Outs Made, 43rd in HR, 51st in Hits, and 151st in SB. You don't want Outs to be your signature stat.

I loved watching the Hawk play, especially RF in Wrigley from the bleachers. But hard to imagine that being the guy one thinks waited too long to get into the Hall.

I'd take him any day of the week over Biggio.

[onejayhawk]

I'd take him any day of the week over Biggio.

Wow. Do you know anyone else with that opinion?

J