2K24: San Diego Padres

[Ken]

I disagree, he's not slick at all. he's affable, but he's really not that smart, IMO, to be convincingly deceptive. You obviously see it different.

His teammates have called him immature as I have I, no one's called him a liar.

You've made your call (judgment) as you do. I see things differently (as you know).

In any case, I wish him the best and hope he returns to form.

I'm surprised honestly that you are believing him. As much as you are a fan of the padres, you don't seem like the type to fall for these type shenanigans.

Some interesting notes:

Tatis didn't complete the appeal process - he initially protested it but gave up because the evidence was too strong.. Clostebol suspensions have been overturned in other sports. But he did not even try. That's very suspicious.

Hard to believe it's just coincidental that Tatis tested positive while he was trying to return from injury. For all the talk of performance related to steroids, their real usage in the sports world is for recovery. No surprise that he was trying to get back quicker. The only surprise is that anyone would believe that it's purely concidence.

Tatis's mother posted pictures to try to show that he had ringworm. Those pictures have since been taken down. Why?

Fernando Tatis Sr. had one ridiculously good year in his career. 34 HR and .957 OPS in 1999 stick out like a sore thumb. He was injured in 2000-2001 and then steroid testing started in 2002. But Tatis at 27, right in his prime, never came close to that 1999 year. It seems pretty obvious why. I would imagine senior has a big influence over junior.

I think you have to either be ridiculously naive, or just a superfan who doesn't really want to know the truth to buy this ringworm garbage. I don't think you are naive. I do know you are a superfan though! And that's ok.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'm surprised honestly that you are believing him. As much as you are a fan of the padres, you don't seem like the type to fall for these type shenanigans.

Some interesting notes:

Tatis didn't complete the appeal process - he initially protested it but gave up because the evidence was too strong.. Clostebol suspensions have been overturned in other sports. But he did not even try. That's very suspicious.

Hard to believe it's just coincidental that Tatis tested positive while he was trying to return from injury. For all the talk of performance related to steroids, their real usage in the sports world is for recovery. No surprise that he was trying to get back quicker. The only surprise is that anyone would believe that it's purely concidence.

Tatis's mother posted pictures to try to show that he had ringworm. Those pictures have since been taken down. Why?

Fernando Tatis Sr. had one ridiculously good year in his career. 34 HR and .957 OPS in 1999 stick out like a sore thumb. He was injured in 2000-2001 and then steroid testing started in 2002. But Tatis at 27, right in his prime, never came close to that 1999 year. It seems pretty obvious why. I would imagine senior has a big influence over junior.

I think you have to either be ridiculously naive, or just a superfan who doesn't really want to know the truth to buy this ringworm garbage. I don't think you are naive. I do know you are a superfan though! And that's ok.

All true, I'm skeptical but willing to believe him or should I say-overlook-his shit if he turns it around. My ignorance when it comes to PEDs and the current % of players using them (and how they're used) might also allow me to give JR the benefit of the doubt for now, but yeah--I'm also a Padres fan--Not of any individual Padre outside of Gwynn, but of the club.

When the news broke, I initially was in favor of voiding/restructuring his contract and then, should he continue to act like an asshat, trade him and use that money to extend Soto. But again, the presser seemed really sincere. I may WANT to believe him because I'm a fan, but he did a good job of convincing me to do so.

[whalewang]

Tatis is a kid. He's made mistakes and he'll make more but these mistakes really are forgivable. He's no Trevor Bauer or Ozuna.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Tatis is a kid. He's made mistakes and he'll make more but these mistakes really are forgivable. He's no Trevor Bauer or Ozuna.

nor Evil Knievel apparently

[Ken]

Tatis is a kid. He's made mistakes and he'll make more but these mistakes really are forgivable. He's no Trevor Bauer or Ozuna.

If he knowingly took steroids for the purpose of speeding up recovery or improving performance being "a kid" is not an acceptable excuse.

[Sharky]

nor Evil Knievel apparently

Now THAT was well played, GITH.

[GwynnInTheHall]

If he knowingly took steroids for the purpose of speeding up recovery or improving performance being "a kid" is not an acceptable excuse.

I understand that you believe this and that it might well be true, but if you don’t have irrefutable evidence (and the suspension in my opinion is not that) I’d appreciate you couching your statements in ‘allegedly’ or ‘I believe’.

Neither one of us knows for sure so let’s stop speaking as if we do

[madducks]

I can excuse Tatis for his youthful indiscretions. I know if i had fame and tens of millions of dollars at my disposal when i was in my early twenties i would have made poor decisions too. I could just see myself back then buying a Lamborghini and trying to get up to 200 mph on the interstate. It may not have ended well.

[chancellor]

I could just see myself back then buying a Lamborghini and trying to get up to 200 mph on the interstate. It may not have ended well.

Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 for me.

2020-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500se-203-1596466379.jpg

[Ken]

I understand that you believe this and that it might well be true, but if you don’t have irrefutable evidence (and the suspension in my opinion is not that) I’d appreciate you couching your statements in ‘allegedly’ or ‘I believe’.

Neither one of us knows for sure so let’s stop speaking as if we do

Huh? That makes zero sense.

First -- everything posted on this board regarding off the field behavior is "allegedly", there's zero reason that I would be singled out and have to stipulate just because you disagree with it. Sorry, not going to happen. Suffice to say, your request was bullshit.

Second, MLB has suspended him for breaking the rules. He broke them. He's a cheat, whether you like it or not! The fact that you buy into the naive BS excuse isn't my problem. If it honestly hurts your feelings so much that you can't read that truth, maybe you should skip on by - your attempts to censor my posts just because you can't handle them are misguided.

It's interesting to note how you tore down nully for his conspiracy theories (and rightfully so), but you buy into this one - to me it's very hypocritical. Let's be clear - "it was just ringworm" is a conspiracy theory. The facts are that Tatis cheated and he's being punished for it.

Third, you must have just grossly misread my post. Here I'll post the exact words again and highlight an important word so you can focus:

If he knowingly took steroids for the purpose of speeding up recovery or improving performance being "a kid" is not an acceptable excuse.

[revo]

He said he’d had a skin rash since June and took medication he got from the DR but stated he should have cleared it with the Padres medical team before using it

He’d tested negative inMarch. Then positive end of July.

He basically said he made and had made poor choices throughout this including the motorcycle accident

So no he didn’t recant the ringworm stuff

I guess we’ll see if he’s the same talent next season and if he is he’ll get the benefit of the doubt if not he’ll be branded a cheater the rest of his career

If he didn't recant his statement, then he still hasn't learned his lesson. If, for example, he was the first one to have ever been caught with this banned substance, maybe his excuse would hold water. But he's not, and this substance is known as a performance-enhancer, so it's definitely still eye rolling and not believable.

[Ken]

If he didn't recant his statement, then he still hasn't learned his lesson. If, for example, he was the first one to have ever been caught with this banned substance, maybe his excuse would hold water. But he's not, and this substance is known as a performance-enhancer, so it's definitely still eye rolling.

Be careful you didn't say allegedly, hahaha.

[chancellor]

I understand that you believe this and that it might well be true, but if you don’t have irrefutable evidence (and the suspension in my opinion is not that) I’d appreciate you couching your statements in ‘allegedly’ or ‘I believe’.

Neither one of us knows for sure so let’s stop speaking as if we do

Gotta disagree with you on this one, my friend. Not only is the drug test fairly conclusive, but the whole ringworm issue is a deception. For clarity, Tatis, jr was busted with Clostebol, an anabolic steroid, and one that's fairly common (and Tatis is hardly the first to be busted for this substance). It's an old steroid, dating back to the 1960s, but very efficient at recovery/regrowth, and is noted for having a very well-known detection sequence.

The corticosteroid used to treat ringworm is Clobetasol; it's commonly used for skin ailments, also is banned, but is NOT the substance he was busted with. Moreover, Clobetasol is a med that's easy to get a TUE for, especially offseason.

So, not only has he used an anabolic steroid; someone (or more than one) in his camp decided to try and obscure the violation by claiming use of a different, though very similarly named substance. While I give them points for originality - I've never heard this defense before - that doesn't change that he took an anabolic steroid with a long, storied, dirty history.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Huh? That makes zero sense.

First -- everything posted on this board regarding off the field behavior is "allegedly", there's zero reason that I would be singled out and have to stipulate just because you disagree with it. Sorry, not going to happen. Suffice to say, your request was bullshit.

Second, MLB has suspended him for breaking the rules. He broke them. He's a cheat, whether you like it or not! The fact that you buy into the naive BS excuse isn't my problem. If it honestly hurts your feelings so much that you can't read that truth, maybe you should skip on by - your attempts to censor my posts just because you can't handle them are misguided.

It's interesting to note how you tore down nully for his conspiracy theories (and rightfully so), but you buy into this one - to me it's very hypocritical. Let's be clear - "it was just ringworm" is a conspiracy theory. The facts are that Tatis cheated and he's being punished for it.

Third, you must have just grossly misread my post. Here I'll post the exact words again and highlight an important word so you can focus:

If he knowingly took steroids for the purpose of speeding up recovery or improving performance being "a kid" is not an acceptable excuse.

I did misread your post so I’ll apologize for directing my response towards you and your post. It’s not you or anyone in particular nor any topic or thread that I have issues with, it’s the use of absolutes in situations that cannot be factually validated

As to the Tatis situation. I’ve mentioned several times that I’m skeptical that you and others may indeed be right that he may have cheated but if there’s even the slightest chance he’s being honest after seeing his presser I’m choosing to stay my declarations of cheating until proven otherwise

If he keeps his nose clean and returns to form I’ll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt because there are skin treatments that contain clostebol and that have caused positive tests for clostebol in athletes. Again I’m not saying this is the case but as long as it’s possible I choose not to use absolutes an prefer if others choose similarly

I’ve asked the same before of others regarding different topics

I disagree that we should automatically assume everything that’s posted in the forum is considered allegedly or as an op ed. If I did I wouldn’t try to always qualify my statements with IMO et al. But maybe others do see it this way

As to equating his suspension to absolute guilt. I don’t agree no more than acquittal means innocence to me

You may disagree but I hope this explains my position

[Ken]

I did misread your post so I’ll apologize for directing my response towards you and your post.

No worries, appreciate you owning that!!!!

I’ve asked the same before of others regarding different topics

I disagree that we should automatically assume everything that’s posted in the forum is considered allegedly or as an op ed. If I did I wouldn’t try to always qualify my statements with IMO et al. But maybe others do see it this way

I'm not seeing the utility in that. We talk about Ozuna's drunk driving and don't type allegedly. We talk about Felipe Vázquez's legal woes and we don't say allegedly. We talk about Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and Ryan Braun and many, many others, and no one complains about the lack of qualifiers.

It's not necessary. None of us were there. All of us know that to be the case.

This isn't a court of law. It's much closer to the water cooler at work, and you'd get laughed out of the break room for trying to censor someone like that. It's not the decorum that's required or even one most of us are interested in. We all know that none of us were the room when it happened, and we can all talk about it anyway without any need for censorship.

As to equating his suspension to absolute guilt. I don’t agree no more than acquittal means innocence to me

You are entitled to your opinion of course. I think the suspension itself is one fact among many that make it beyond obvious what happened here.