Oscar Taveras - RIP

[Hornsby]

A spokeswoman for the Dominican Republic's Attorney General's Office, Tessie Sanchez, said Oscar Taveras was "legally intoxicated when he crashed."
Sanchez revealed that a toxicology report showed Taveras' blood-alcohol level was five times the legal limit. Taveras and his girlfriend, 18-year-old Edilia Arvelo, were killed in a car crash on October 26 in his native Dominican Republic. Taveras was 22 years old.
Source: USA TodayNov 12 - 7:22 PM

Toxicology report showed BAC as .287...the limit in most of the US is .08.

[onejayhawk]

Most people pass out before that point.

J

[DMT]

.287 is completely shitfaced. Unfortunate.

[Pogues]

Well...now not so unfortunate. Now...just stupid.

[The Dane]

Well...now not so unfortunate. Now...just stupid.

Yeah, drunk drivers lose all respect. I'm sad for his family, but I'm glad that his abject stupidity and disrespect for human life didn't kill more than just him and his girlfriend.

[madducks]

Well...now not so unfortunate. Now...just stupid.

Taveras was still a kid at age 22 and making more money than most people who were older than him. He obviously wasn't responsible enough to handle it all. A lot of us did stupid things when we were in our teens and early twenties. I drove while "shitfaced" (the most stupid thing i ever did) once when i was 19 years old. I knew better, but i had just been dumped by my first serious girlfriend and i was behaving irrationally. Although i wasn't speeding on wet roads, luck was still on my side that night. Unfortunately,Taveras wasn't as lucky.

edit: Oddly enough, i was also driving a red Camaro back in those days.

[Moonlight J]

this is what the human body does at those levels

[The Dane]

Maybe it's the simplicity of my spirit, the shallowness of my humanity, but there comes a point when some people have just done something to lose my sympathy, my mental consideration. For example, I can't really get my mind in a place to understand a child molester. I just can't do it. I understand sexual desire, but I also know that you can't f*ck everything you want in this life, so it's seems to me that it's a crime of lack of self-control and we ALL need to be cognizant of those. So, I waste zero mental energy worrying about that guy's pain. Depending on the type of murder, I can sometimes get my head around it and find forgiveness. Bank robbers who hurt no one are minor heroes in my book. If you shoplift from The Gap or Macy's, your criminality is covered in my mind by the billionaires who own those stores and the child slaves that make what they sell; stealing from them only feels like an "official" crime to me. Stealing from the guy at the local shop who is trying to put his kids through school, well, you're probably going to hell for that.

Point is, it is an exhausting exercise to figure out how I feel about any of the any heinous crimes I hear about every day, so sometimes, I need to make blanket categorical decisions so that I don't have to mull it over too much every day. In this, I have come to the conclusion that drunk drivers lose all sympathy from me. If he dies and doesn't kill an innocent, I consider it a net win for humanity.

Again, I'm sorry for his family, but I was 19 and sloshed drunk about 100 times and I never got behind the wheel of a car. It's called self-control. It's called understanding that the ramifications of your actions can be dire to more than just yourself. There is no amount of drunk that can make you lose sight of that, unless you never really had sight of it in the first place. So, drunk drivers can chalk up their mistakes to immaturity, but I don't buy it. Perhaps, had Taveras survived, he would have gained an appreciation for his life and the lives of those whom he risked by driving home that night, but he died thinking only of himself, and well... I don't have the mental energy to defend him at all.

[Gregg]

Maybe it's the simplicity of my spirit, the shallowness of my humanity, but there comes a point when some people have just done something to lose my sympathy, my mental consideration. For example, I can't really get my mind in a place to understand a child molester. I just can't do it. I understand sexual desire, but I also know that you can't f*ck everything you want in this life, so it's seems to me that it's a crime of lack of self-control and we ALL need to be cognizant of those. So, I waste zero mental energy worrying about that guy's pain. Depending on the type of murder, I can sometimes get my head around it and find forgiveness. Bank robbers who hurt no one are minor heroes in my book. If you shoplift from The Gap or Macy's, your criminality is covered in my mind by the billionaires who own those stores and the child slaves that make what they sell; stealing from them only feels like an "official" crime to me. Stealing from the guy at the local shop who is trying to put his kids through school, well, you're probably going to hell for that.

Point is, it is an exhausting exercise to figure out how I feel about any of the any heinous crimes I hear about every day, so sometimes, I need to make blanket categorical decisions so that I don't have to mull it over too much every day. In this, I have come to the conclusion that drunk drivers lose all sympathy from me. If he dies and doesn't kill an innocent, I consider it a net win for humanity.

Again, I'm sorry for his family, but I was 19 and sloshed drunk about 100 times and I never got behind the wheel of a car. It's called self-control. It's called understanding that the ramifications of your actions can be dire to more than just yourself. There is no amount of drunk that can make you lose sight of that, unless you never really had sight of it in the first place. So, drunk drivers can chalk up their mistakes to immaturity, but I don't buy it. Perhaps, had Taveras survived, he would have gained an appreciation for his life and the lives of those whom he risked by driving home that night, but he died thinking only of himself, and well... I don't have the mental energy to defend him at all.

From A.W Tozer:

Spiritual Warfare and Sin: Wrong Judgment
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.—Galatians 6:7
Sin, I repeat, in addition to anything else it may be, is always an act of wrong judgment. To commit a sin a man must for the moment believe that things are different from what they really are; he must confound values; he must see the moral universe out of focus; he must accept a lie as truth and see truth as a lie; he must ignore the signs on the highway and drive with his eyes shut; he must act as if he had no soul, and was not accountable for his moral choices.
Sin is never a thing to be proud of. No act is wise that ignores remote consequences, and sin always does. Sin sees only today, or at most tomorrow; never the day after tomorrow, next month or next year. Death and judgment are pushed aside as if they did not exist and the sinner becomes for the time a practical atheist who by his act denies not only the existence of God but the concept of life after death....
The notion that the careless sinner is the smart fellow and the serious-minded Christian, though well-intentioned, is a stupid dolt altogether out of touch with life will not stand up under scrutiny. Sin is basically an act of moral folly, and the greater the folly the greater the fool. Man: The Dwelling Place of God, 47-48.

I am a sinner. I make bad choices. I was also once like Oscar. We all need forgiveness. That is what Jesus gave us and offers us.

[Gregg]

You guys and your high horses fucking suck, all of you. RIP Oscar Taveras and that's it. Glad all of your mistakes when you were a kid weren't fatal ones. Have fun casting aspersions, I guess. This was someone's son. People loved him and now he's just gone. He made a bad decision. He made a bad decision that's made an estimated 112 MILLION times per year in this country alone. I hope they all die, right? Because I'm better than them, right? Shut up.

I may not quite have put it like you, but agree with a lot of what you have said. Where is the grace, where is the compassion. This is a very terrible tragedy with lots of sadness.

I am guessing that a lot of folks would rather mask their pain and sadness with anger. It seems to be easier to cope with.

[The Dane]

You guys and your high horses fucking suck, all of you. RIP Oscar Taveras and that's it. Glad all of your mistakes when you were a kid weren't fatal ones. Have fun casting aspersions, I guess. This was someone's son. People loved him and now he's just gone. He made a bad decision. He made a bad decision that's made an estimated 112 MILLION times per year in this country alone. I hope they all die, right? Because I'm better than them, right? Shut up.

Who is on a high horse? I never told anyone how they should feel; I only described how I feel. I leave it for others to feel how they do. I really try to not impose my beliefs on others and tell them to just shut up and feel the way I do. But then, my horse isn't high enough for that.

[Gregg]

I typically don't like to mention "good works" as that is not what the Lord has commanded us to do. Plus it is not about me, but God's grace. Given this turn of events in this thread I have decided to share.

I received a call last night from a 22 year old who is in a locked treatment center. He has made terrible choices in the last 10 years. His drug use started as most kids, just getting a little high on the weekends. He is now a full blown crack and heroin user, trying once again to get clean and sober.

He attended my daughters high school, was well liked. She said he had a kind heart. I asked him why he stepped over the line into needles (this was my personal line back in the day). He said he knew he was different, he knew he could handle it. By his own admission he was wrong. Now he fears he can never get right.

He asked me if I would work the 12 steps with him. I told him no, he should have known better than to get himself in this situation and he should just die and go to hell where he belongs...Ok that is not what I said, just having a bit of fun with the shock value. I actually told him I would be honored to walk this with him.

I don't know if he is going to make it or not. Some might say he doesn't deserve another chance. But he is getting another chance I hope he makes the most of it.

I don't know why I got a second chance. I wrapped my Trans Am around a tree, drunk and high. I have my own personal belief's why, but that is not important here. I don't know why this young man is getting more chances. He is not lost...yet. Maybe we can make a difference.

So I am sad for Oscar and his girlfriend who do not get more chances. I am sad for the families and friends who loved them and will not see them anymore in this lifetime. I am angry at the sin, not the sinner. Maybe the best way to fight back is help people.

[Gregg]

Oh, I'm angry as (heck). I'm just not a monster.

Texting and driving has been shown to be just as dangerous as drinking and driving (although not nearly as violative of our Puritanical beliefs), or even moreso. I guess all those kids who text and drive should just fucking die. Or, at the least, I should consider a net win for humanity when they're wiped off the face of the earth. Anyone here with teenage kids? If they use their phone (or speed or drive when tired or any number of other equivalents) while driving then they just deserve to die. Please let them know that. Because, hey, I don't text and drive. Therefore, I can cast the (heck) out of that particular stone, right?

So drunk texting and driving would be the worst of the worst?

An ex-employee and friend of mine was killed by a soccer mom who was texting. She ran into him while he was driving his motorcycle home from work. He left a wife an 3 kids. No one will ever be the same, especially the one who has to live with what she has done.

[The Dane]

Oh, I'm angry as (heck). I'm just not a monster.

Texting and driving has been shown to be just as dangerous as drinking and driving (although not nearly as violative of our Puritanical beliefs), or even moreso. I guess all those kids who text and drive should just fucking die. Or, at the least, I should consider a net win for humanity when they're wiped off the face of the earth. Anyone here with teenage kids? If they use their phone (or speed or drive when tired or any number of other equivalents) while driving then they just deserve to die. Please let them know that. Because, hey, I don't text and drive. Therefore, I can cast the (heck) out of that particular stone, right?

You are doing a lot of extrapolating here. I never said anyone deserved to die. Read again. I know I didn't say that because I know I don't believe that, despite what your mind has conjured. Let me clarify what I think has confused you: If a person gets terribly drunk and drives and we get out of it with that person killing only themselves, then we have really gotten out of that situation relatively unscathed. Some years ago, a drunk driver driving down a hill in south San Francisco about a two minute walk from my apartment ran through a full bus-stop full of morning commuters, killing many and wounding more. I know I don't need to tell you that when someone drinks and drives there are any number of horrible things that can happen and one of the least horrible -but also truly horrible- is the driver losing his own life and everyone else is okay. So, when I say a "net win" what I really mean to say is that it could have been a lot worse. If Tavarez had made the exact same mistake that night, but instead of killing himself, he killed an entire busload of orphans, I don't think anyone would be saying that he was just being a stupid kid; we'd be calling him a cold-blooded murderer.

He made the decision that cost him his life. I'm sad it happened the way it did for his family and his girlfriend's family, but I can't let it eat me up because he chose. It wasn't an act of God. It wasn't really an accident, in the sense that it was unpreventable. He did something very stupid and I am glad it wasn't worse, because it certainly could have been.

And, like Gregg says, I do hate the sin and not the sinner here. But, in this case, the sinner doesn't get to die a hero. I don't hate Taveras; I just don't venerate him anymore.

[Pogues]

Point is, it is an exhausting exercise to figure out how I feel about any of the any heinous crimes I hear about every day, so sometimes, I need to make blanket categorical decisions so that I don't have to mull it over too much every day. In this, I have come to the conclusion that drunk drivers lose all sympathy from me. If he dies and doesn't kill an innocent, I consider it a net win for humanity.

Again, I'm sorry for his family, but I was 19 and sloshed drunk about 100 times and I never got behind the wheel of a car. It's called self-control. It's called understanding that the ramifications of your actions can be dire to more than just yourself. There is no amount of drunk that can make you lose sight of that, unless you never really had sight of it in the first place. So, drunk drivers can chalk up their mistakes to immaturity, but I don't buy it. Perhaps, had Taveras survived, he would have gained an appreciation for his life and the lives of those whom he risked by driving home that night, but he died thinking only of himself, and well... I don't have the mental energy to defend him at all.

I really hate when someone says what I want to say so...perfectly. It's a shame that his girlfriend died, but again it goes to making good decisions...she should not have gotten in that car with him. She's indirectly responsible for her own death.