Best mix of 6X6 stats

[onejayhawk]

Better for what? Again I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

I get removing CG since no one gets them now, that was a good example, but it seems like you are tricking it up. The standard stats are best because it's a common ground everyone uses and can discuss.

Wins and losses are too dependent on factors outside the pitcher's control. Even ERA, which is a much more descriptive stat, is heavily influenced by the defense behind the pitcher. Wins involve not just the runs prevented but also the runs scored in support. If I was to eliminate one of the standard 4x4 or 5x5 pitching categories, wins is the clear choice.

[The Feral Slasher]

Wins and losses are too dependent on factors outside the pitcher's control. Even ERA, which is a much more descriptive stat, is heavily influenced by the defense behind the pitcher. Wins involve not just the runs prevented but also the runs scored in support. If I was to eliminate one of the standard 4x4 or 5x5 pitching categories, wins is the clear choice.

It sounds like what you really want is a 1 X 1 league with hitter and pitcher WAR. Or maybe just make it a 1 category WAR league.

[Ken]

Wins and losses are too dependent on factors outside the pitcher's control. Even ERA, which is a much more descriptive stat, is heavily influenced by the defense behind the pitcher. Wins involve not just the runs prevented but also the runs scored in support. If I was to eliminate one of the standard 4x4 or 5x5 pitching categories, wins is the clear choice.

ERA is dependent on the defense. Yup, so get pitchers with good defenses behind them.

If your goal is to specifically implement a system that correctly values every player for only their own contribution on the field you are going to fail miserably regardless of what categories you use.

If your goal is instead to have a good fantasy league with strategy and good discussions and tradition, then the traditional roto stats work great.

In my opinion the more you trick it up, the worse it becomes. But that’s just my view, I know others like other stats and that’s fine!

[Gregg]

ERA is dependent on the defense. Yup, so get pitchers with good defenses behind them.

If your goal is to specifically implement a system that correctly values every player for only their own contribution on the field you are going to fail miserably regardless of what categories you use.

If your goal is instead to have a good fantasy league with strategy and good discussions and tradition, then the traditional roto stats work great.

In my opinion the more you trick it up, the worse it becomes. But that’s just my view, I know others like other stats and that’s fine!

Agreed.

[The Feral Slasher]

Wins and losses are too dependent on factors outside the pitcher's control. Even ERA, which is a much more descriptive stat, is heavily influenced by the defense behind the pitcher. Wins involve not just the runs prevented but also the runs scored in support. If I was to eliminate one of the standard 4x4 or 5x5 pitching categories, wins is the clear choice.

Why even have catagories ? Just make it one category that best represents player value/performance

[onejayhawk]

ERA is dependent on the defense. Yup, so get pitchers with good defenses behind them.

If your goal is to specifically implement a system that correctly values every player for only their own contribution on the field you are going to fail miserably regardless of what categories you use.

If your goal is instead to have a good fantasy league with strategy and good discussions and tradition, then the traditional roto stats work great.

In my opinion the more you trick it up, the worse it becomes. But that’s just my view, I know others like other stats and that’s fine!

From the side talk, it looks like the approach will be minimalist. The annual meeting is after the holidays.

Everyone concedes that CG is outdated. The "new" stats with traction are QS, probably to replace W, K/9, and Net SB. Also, there is a push for an equal number of ratio stats for both hitting and pitching.

We use and will keep H as a category. I like the way it works though I see the value of H+BB as well. What is your opinion?