Greatest Living American?

[The Feral Slasher]

that dude is an ass....or is he a great American ?

Not a great American...definitely an ass

[revo]

Donald Trump?


:waitsforrottentomatoes:

[GwynnInTheHall]

Not a great American...definitely an ass

He always comes up Short.

[Sour Masher]

As much as I've grown to see him as part P.T. Barnum, part raging egomaniac, like many other complicated figures in history, I think Musk, for all his many faults, will go down as one of the most positively influential people of our era. He is a good reminder that many "great" people in history were also flawed, egotistical jerks.

Many would disagree, but I can't see putting any trailblazer in athletics above Barack Obama. Not only did he break the ultimate color barrier, despite making mistakes and disappointing many, I think he did a lot of good and tried to do more with the Affordable Care Act (which wasn't enough, but did insure 20 million uninsured Americans), his leadership in coming out of the Great Recession, his efforts to save the US auto industry, decreasing veteran homeless rates by 50%, etc.

I can't argue against Dolly Parton as a third contender. I don't think her impact is nearly as big as the two above, but she is most definitely more universally liked and respected than both of them. The same goes for Buzz Aldrin--who hates that guy? I can't imagine anyone hating Jimmy Carter either--he is certainly the greatest ex-president alive, although his presidency was not so great.

[Pauly]

Kind of pissed I forgot Ric Flair who is the true greatest american (as opposed to a "real" american by some other dude)

mic drop.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Kind of pissed I forgot Ric Flair who is the true greatest american (as opposed to a "real" american by some other dude)

mic drop.

Wooo!

[The Feral Slasher]

As much as I've grown to see him as part P.T. Barnum, part raging egomaniac, like many other complicated figures in history, I think Musk, for all his many faults, will go down as one of the most positively influential people of our era. He is a good reminder that many "great" people in history were also flawed, egotistical jerks.

Many would disagree, but I can't see putting any trailblazer in athletics above Barack Obama. Not only did he break the ultimate color barrier, despite making mistakes and disappointing many, I think he did a lot of good and tried to do more with the Affordable Care Act (which wasn't enough, but did insure 20 million uninsured Americans), his leadership in coming out of the Great Recession, his efforts to save the US auto industry, decreasing veteran homeless rates by 50%, etc.

I can't argue against Dolly Parton as a third contender. I don't think her impact is nearly as big as the two above, but she is most definitely more universally liked and respected than both of them. The same goes for Buzz Aldrin--who hates that guy? I can't imagine anyone hating Jimmy Carter either--he is certainly the greatest ex-president alive, although his presidency was not so great.

I strongly disagree with you first two candidates. They both probably deserve separate threads of discussion to discuss their accomplishments and legacy.

[Kevin Seitzer]

As much as I've grown to see him as part P.T. Barnum, part raging egomaniac, like many other complicated figures in history, I think Musk, for all his many faults, will go down as one of the most positively influential people of our era. He is a good reminder that many "great" people in history were also flawed, egotistical jerks.

Many would disagree, but I can't see putting any trailblazer in athletics above Barack Obama. Not only did he break the ultimate color barrier, despite making mistakes and disappointing many, I think he did a lot of good and tried to do more with the Affordable Care Act (which wasn't enough, but did insure 20 million uninsured Americans), his leadership in coming out of the Great Recession, his efforts to save the US auto industry, decreasing veteran homeless rates by 50%, etc.

I can't argue against Dolly Parton as a third contender. I don't think her impact is nearly as big as the two above, but she is most definitely more universally liked and respected than both of them. The same goes for Buzz Aldrin--who hates that guy? I can't imagine anyone hating Jimmy Carter either--he is certainly the greatest ex-president alive, although his presidency was not so great.

I think Obama is credible candidate, even with the 40% or so of Americans who will disagree with that.

Elon Musk is interesting. It's not clear to me whether he's more Samuel Morse/Thomas Edison/Robert Fulton change-the-world, or whether he's a more complicated Carnegie/Vanderbilt/Rockefeller type who changed the world for the better, yes, but also did great damage to society and whose legacy is ultimately mixed.

I also think, and purposely left it vague, whether great means "influential on society", or "someone I admire and would like to emulate", or both.

[The Feral Slasher]

I strongly disagree with you first two candidates. They both probably deserve separate threads of discussion to discuss their accomplishments and legacy.

I will add that I am firmly in the camp that Donald Trump is Obama's legacy.

[umjewman]

4 pages and nobody nominated me? I thought you guys liked me.

[chancellor]

I will add that I am firmly in the camp that Donald Trump is Obama's legacy.

Unless President Obama forcibly lobotomized Hillary Clinton, this makes no sense whatsoever. But that's probably for another thread.

Per this thread, and Sour Masher's comment, I don't hate Carter, but do hold him pretty much in total contempt. He was a terrible leader, and our country was demonstrably and measurably worse during his presidential term. I merely didn't like him in the 70s - his leadership came perilously close to ruining my life and my family's life due to his administration bungling of every aspect of the economy, leading to a disaster combination of outrageously high inflation, rapidly increasing unemployment, and increasing interest rates. But I came to hold him in complete contempt when later in life, he threw in his lot with those who celebrated Anwar Sadat's assassins and denigrated Anwar Sadat. With friends like Jimmy Carter, as many sadly learned, one simply didn't need enemies.

[The Feral Slasher]

Unless President Obama forcibly lobotomized Hillary Clinton, this makes no sense whatsoever. But that's probably for another thread.

.

lol. If Obama had improved the life of most Americans significantly, the Dems would have had no problem defeating Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders would have been a politician none of us ever heard of. He was enormously popular, yet his policies were ineffective, leaving Americans looking for real change. Or maybe you think he was a great president and the dems only lost to Trump because Hilary was unopular ?

EDIT - honestly it's absurd to think that Donald Trump could ever have been elected if there wasn't a huge problem in our country. But maybe you have an explanation.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I will add that I am firmly in the camp that Donald Trump is Obama's legacy.

Because lots of people hated a black man in the White House and what that represented and tried to undermine his success and/or undo his legacy? Or because he made mistakes that caused the rise of Trump?

I would put the whole Merrick Garland situation in the latter category, and maybe a few other things like that, but they mostly seemed to be due to thinking/hoping too highly of the American people.

I don't think any president of the U.S. can be a saint because of all the killing and empire-building that goes along with that, but Obama, if anything, might have less blood on his hands than Jimmy Carter, if we're holding that against him? (And I'm not saying we shouldn't, but it's not unique to Obama.)

[The Feral Slasher]

Because lots of people hated a black man in the White House and what that represented and tried to undermine his success and/or undo his legacy? Or because he made mistakes that caused the rise of Trump?

I would put the whole Merrick Garland situation in the latter category, and maybe a few other things like that, but they mostly seemed to be due to thinking/hoping too highly of the American people.

I don't think any president of the U.S. can be a saint because of all the killing and empire-building that goes along with that, but Obama, if anything, might have less blood on his hands than Jimmy Carter, if we're holding that against him? (And I'm not saying we shouldn't, but it's not unique to Obama.)

Inequality rose tremendously during the Obama admin. Health care issues were not solved, life expectancy in America declined I am pretty sure. A huge percentage of Americans continued to struggle, living pay check to pay check. He didn't affectively address the real problems that exist in America. It may be unfair to expect him to....but that is the job, and I think if you look at the data he failed. And that is why I think Bernie and Trump were legitimate contenders. If a majority of Americans were doing well they would never have had a chance (no pun intended). Or maybe it was just because Hilary. Like Chance said, probably a topic for another thread.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Inequality rose tremendously during the Obama admin. Health care issues were not solved, life expectancy in America declined I am pretty sure. A huge percentage of Americans continued to struggle, living pay check to pay check. He didn't affectively address the real problems that exist in America. It may be unfair to expect him to....but that is the job, and I think if you look at the data he failed. And that is why I think Bernie and Trump were legitimate contenders. If a majority of Americans were doing well they would never have had a chance (no pun intended). Or maybe it was just because Hilary. Like Chance said, probably a topic for another thread.

Makes sense, thanks for the response.

On health care, I think he recognized the issue and tried, and should be given a ton of credit for what he was able to accomplish despite fierce Republican opposition.

On inequality, that's probably the major domestic issue of our generation, and one that continues to become more acute. I don't think either major political party has good answers. The Republicans' answers are actively making the problem worse, but the Democrats' answers aren't making it better. I hope we as a country can rally together and find some answers, because if we do not, it may tear the fabric of our society apart. I have some thoughts on that front, but yeah, that's already taking this thread down a tangent. The greatest American might be someone who has some answers for this issue that could unite us around finding solutions.