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Thread: 2K22 Closer Thread

  1. #21
    Journeyman Pauly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopChuckie View Post
    I have a hard time viewing Hendriks in the same light as Hader, or even Chapman. I know the White Sox hope to trade Kimbrel, but with the lockout they might not have time to get it done before the season starts, especially with Jansen and to a lesser extent Kennedy, Colome, and other former closers on the free agent market. If Kimbrel's there, he seems like a bigger threat to Hendriks' job than injury, poor performance, or trade does to Hader or Chapman. A slow start to the season for Hendriks and I could envision clamoring for Kimbrel, even by Kimbrel as he doesn't strike me as content to be a setup man, or maybe they just go committee or decide to use Hendriks in higher leverage situations because they have Kimbrel, who is just as good, to close. And there's always that narrative that closing makes a guy more valuable if they are trying to trade Kimbrel.

    TLDR: Kimbrel's presence makes it hard for me to get on board with Hendriks being the #1, or even #3, closer off the board, like seems to be the early trend.
    Everyone drafting in January needs to be cognizant of the fact that Team X is going to sign grizzled but experienced guys like Alex Colome (or Brad Hand or Soria or a host of others) to take over for the guy with 8 career saves.

  2. #22
    Journeyman TopChuckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    Chapman went thru at least a month-long stretch in 21 where he was totally unreliable IIRC...people were picking up Chad Green and Britton for the inevitable benching or IL stint.

    To me at this early stage, Chapman is one of the more likely of the "safe" closers to fall from grace.
    I'm not saying it's not possible, but I think this is a flawed narrative. In a "bad" season Chapman still had a 15.5 K/9 and 40% K%, 98.4 average fastball velocity, higher than the previous two seasons. His bad month pretty much coincided with the sticky stuff crack down, and I believe there were some injury concerns, then he presumably figured some things out, bounced back, and finished like his usual self. If he's not on the IL, I just can't see Boone moving Chapman to middle reliever permanently, nor can I see Chapman accepting it without disruption. At least not in the 1st half, in the 2nd half, since Chapman's contract is expiring and I doubt they have any intention of bringing him back, then if he struggles, I could envision starting the transition to Loaisiga for the future.

    ETA: Or god forbid, if the Yankees are out of it in July, I could see them trading him as a rental again.
    Some people say winning isn't everything. I say those people never won anything.

    Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.

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  3. #23
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopChuckie View Post
    ETA: Or god forbid, if the Yankees are out of it in July
    I disagree

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TranaGreg View Post
    IMO there's a huge difference between getting a closer with the talent and the role (e.g. Clase) vs speculating on who will get the job in a given setting; I find too many see the first grouping going high & then invest too quickly in the second group.
    Clase is the exact guy I was looking at with the "sure thing" moniker. He, like many other closers, goes much higher in NFBC than elsewhere since you can't farm the wire for other options, though. ADP of about 65 in NFBC and 92 elsewhere. And totally agree that there is a huge gap between the Clases and the speculatives. That's why I try and nab one closer from the tier before the speculatives start going.

    Edit: And, yeah, there aren't really many/any actual sure things when it comes to closers but we gotta call 'em something, I suppose.
    Last edited by Bene Futuis; 01-12-2022 at 02:14 PM.
    I think the tragedy is that we have a Congress with a Senate that has a minority of misguided senators who will use the filibuster to keep the majority of people from even voting. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

  5. #25
    Journeyman TopChuckie's Avatar
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    Purely based on job security, I think I would rate Hader, Jansen, Iglecias, Diaz, and Melancon all ahead of Chapman and Hendriks, as I think potential alternatives can be as big of a factor as talent when it comes to keeping the role, with the caveat that I don't know where Jansen ends up, but if he goes back to the Dodgers, he is their closer, even with Treinen there, and if he goes somewhere else, he'll be getting paid to be their closer also.

    I don't include Clase as I'm not sure the Clase-Karinchak battle is a done deal. Clase is still unproven enough to have some struggles, and there is an alternative there that was the "closer" last year.
    Some people say winning isn't everything. I say those people never won anything.

    Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.

    The last thing I want to do is hurt you...but it's still on the list.

    Some people are like Slinkies, they are not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

    "...relentless inevitability of Yankee glory." - The Onion

  6. #26
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    Rotographs top 15 relievers along with NFBC ADP

    Code:
    1	Liam Hendriks	CWS	32.41	24	40
    2	Josh Hader	MLW	32.9	27	44
    3	Raisel Iglesias	LAA	47.38	33	61
    4	Emmanuel Clase	CLE	49.83	36	65
    5	Edwin Diaz	NYM	55.76	45	68
    6	Ryan Pressly	HOU	57.55	48	74
    7	Aroldis Chapman	NYY	67.28	51	83
    8	Kenley Jansen	LAD	75.28	57	96
    9	Will Smith	ATL	81.93	56	111
    10	Jordan Romano	TOR	87.55	65	104
    11	Mark Melancon	ARZ	109.17	67	164
    12	Craig Kimbrel	CWS	114.52	86	147
    13	Giovanny Gallegos	STL	86.28	61	112
    14	Corey Knebel	PHI	134.9	103	173
    15	Dylan Floro	MIA	199.97	159	237
    At those prices I'm liking Knebel, Smith, and Gallegos pretty well. Don't know if I could burn a 4th rounder on Clase, as much as he's an elite option.
    I think the tragedy is that we have a Congress with a Senate that has a minority of misguided senators who will use the filibuster to keep the majority of people from even voting. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

  7. #27
    Journeyman Pauly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bene Futuis View Post
    Rotographs top 15 relievers along with NFBC ADP

    Code:
    1	Liam Hendriks	CWS	32.41	24	40
    2	Josh Hader	MLW	32.9	27	44
    3	Raisel Iglesias	LAA	47.38	33	61
    4	Emmanuel Clase	CLE	49.83	36	65
    5	Edwin Diaz	NYM	55.76	45	68
    6	Ryan Pressly	HOU	57.55	48	74
    7	Aroldis Chapman	NYY	67.28	51	83
    8	Kenley Jansen	LAD	75.28	57	96
    9	Will Smith	ATL	81.93	56	111
    10	Jordan Romano	TOR	87.55	65	104
    11	Mark Melancon	ARZ	109.17	67	164
    12	Craig Kimbrel	CWS	114.52	86	147
    13	Giovanny Gallegos	STL	86.28	61	112
    14	Corey Knebel	PHI	134.9	103	173
    15	Dylan Floro	MIA	199.97	159	237
    At those prices I'm liking Knebel, Smith, and Gallegos pretty well. Don't know if I could burn a 4th rounder on Clase, as much as he's an elite option.
    I am 50-50 at best that any of the bottom 4 on that list will actually be closers even to start the season. Melancon again jumps out as a great play to me.

  8. #28
    Triple-A harmon's Avatar
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    My Draft and Hold, NFBC style draft (done on Fantrax) currently ongoing. Top 15 closers are:

    1. Hendrix 29
    2. Hader 32 (same guy as Hendrix!)
    3. Iglesias 54
    4. Diaz 67 (same guy as Iglesias!)
    5. Pressly 70
    6. Clase 73
    7. Chapman 75
    8. Jansen 77
    9. Smith 82
    10. Kimbrel 105
    11. Gallegos 107
    12. Romano 114
    13. S. Barlow 118
    14. Treinen 129
    15. Melancon 138

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