IMO there's a huge difference between getting a closer with the talent and the role (e.g. Clase) vs speculating on who will get the job in a given setting; I find too many see the first grouping going high & then invest too quickly in the second group.
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2K22 Closer Thread
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Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Postbut how many sure thing guys are there?
I agree with you that drafting a closer earlier than 10th isn't necessary to win a 15-team mixed league. OTOH, Bene's strategy could also deliver excellent value. You'd just have to be ready to pivot to your strategy since getting burned on a closer run in a NFBC style league is very likely.I'm just here for the baseball.
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I have a hard time viewing Hendriks in the same light as Hader, or even Chapman. I know the White Sox hope to trade Kimbrel, but with the lockout they might not have time to get it done before the season starts, especially with Jansen and to a lesser extent Kennedy, Colome, and other former closers on the free agent market. If Kimbrel's there, he seems like a bigger threat to Hendriks' job than injury, poor performance, or trade does to Hader or Chapman. A slow start to the season for Hendriks and I could envision clamoring for Kimbrel, even by Kimbrel as he doesn't strike me as content to be a setup man, or maybe they just go committee or decide to use Hendriks in higher leverage situations because they have Kimbrel, who is just as good, to close. And there's always that narrative that closing makes a guy more valuable if they are trying to trade Kimbrel.
TLDR: Kimbrel's presence makes it hard for me to get on board with Hendriks being the #1, or even #3, closer off the board, like seems to be the early trend.Some people say winning isn't everything. I say those people never won anything.
Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.
The last thing I want to do is hurt you...but it's still on the list.
Some people are like Slinkies, they are not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
"...relentless inevitability of Yankee glory." - The Onion
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TopChuckie - Great perspective. Will be interesting to see how others look at it.
I'm actually more worried about Chapman - he sure seemed to give up a lot of command to keep his FB at that 99-100 MPH range, and also didn't command his slider as well as he used to. 6 BB/9 and a 1.31 WHIP, even with his great K/9 rate, with a pure power pitcher who'll be 34. I'd still take him, but not as high as I used to.I'm just here for the baseball.
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Originally posted by chancellor View PostTopChuckie - Great perspective. Will be interesting to see how others look at it.
I'm actually more worried about Chapman - he sure seemed to give up a lot of command to keep his FB at that 99-100 MPH range, and also didn't command his slider as well as he used to. 6 BB/9 and a 1.31 WHIP, even with his great K/9 rate, with a pure power pitcher who'll be 34. I'd still take him, but not as high as I used to.
To me at this early stage, Chapman is one of the more likely of the "safe" closers to fall from grace.
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Originally posted by TopChuckie View PostI have a hard time viewing Hendriks in the same light as Hader, or even Chapman. I know the White Sox hope to trade Kimbrel, but with the lockout they might not have time to get it done before the season starts, especially with Jansen and to a lesser extent Kennedy, Colome, and other former closers on the free agent market. If Kimbrel's there, he seems like a bigger threat to Hendriks' job than injury, poor performance, or trade does to Hader or Chapman. A slow start to the season for Hendriks and I could envision clamoring for Kimbrel, even by Kimbrel as he doesn't strike me as content to be a setup man, or maybe they just go committee or decide to use Hendriks in higher leverage situations because they have Kimbrel, who is just as good, to close. And there's always that narrative that closing makes a guy more valuable if they are trying to trade Kimbrel.
TLDR: Kimbrel's presence makes it hard for me to get on board with Hendriks being the #1, or even #3, closer off the board, like seems to be the early trend.
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Originally posted by Pauly View PostChapman went thru at least a month-long stretch in 21 where he was totally unreliable IIRC...people were picking up Chad Green and Britton for the inevitable benching or IL stint.
To me at this early stage, Chapman is one of the more likely of the "safe" closers to fall from grace.
ETA: Or god forbid, if the Yankees are out of it in July, I could see them trading him as a rental again.Some people say winning isn't everything. I say those people never won anything.
Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.
The last thing I want to do is hurt you...but it's still on the list.
Some people are like Slinkies, they are not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
"...relentless inevitability of Yankee glory." - The Onion
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Originally posted by TranaGreg View PostIMO there's a huge difference between getting a closer with the talent and the role (e.g. Clase) vs speculating on who will get the job in a given setting; I find too many see the first grouping going high & then invest too quickly in the second group.
Edit: And, yeah, there aren't really many/any actual sure things when it comes to closers but we gotta call 'em something, I suppose.Last edited by Bene Futuis; 01-12-2022, 01:14 PM.More American children die by gunfire in a year than on-duty police officers and active duty military.
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Purely based on job security, I think I would rate Hader, Jansen, Iglecias, Diaz, and Melancon all ahead of Chapman and Hendriks, as I think potential alternatives can be as big of a factor as talent when it comes to keeping the role, with the caveat that I don't know where Jansen ends up, but if he goes back to the Dodgers, he is their closer, even with Treinen there, and if he goes somewhere else, he'll be getting paid to be their closer also.
I don't include Clase as I'm not sure the Clase-Karinchak battle is a done deal. Clase is still unproven enough to have some struggles, and there is an alternative there that was the "closer" last year.Some people say winning isn't everything. I say those people never won anything.
Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots.
The last thing I want to do is hurt you...but it's still on the list.
Some people are like Slinkies, they are not really good for anything but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
"...relentless inevitability of Yankee glory." - The Onion
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Rotographs top 15 relievers along with NFBC ADP
Code:1 Liam Hendriks CWS 32.41 24 40 2 Josh Hader MLW 32.9 27 44 3 Raisel Iglesias LAA 47.38 33 61 4 Emmanuel Clase CLE 49.83 36 65 5 Edwin Diaz NYM 55.76 45 68 6 Ryan Pressly HOU 57.55 48 74 7 Aroldis Chapman NYY 67.28 51 83 8 Kenley Jansen LAD 75.28 57 96 9 Will Smith ATL 81.93 56 111 10 Jordan Romano TOR 87.55 65 104 11 Mark Melancon ARZ 109.17 67 164 12 Craig Kimbrel CWS 114.52 86 147 13 Giovanny Gallegos STL 86.28 61 112 14 Corey Knebel PHI 134.9 103 173 15 Dylan Floro MIA 199.97 159 237
More American children die by gunfire in a year than on-duty police officers and active duty military.
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Originally posted by Bene Futuis View PostRotographs top 15 relievers along with NFBC ADP
Code:1 Liam Hendriks CWS 32.41 24 40 2 Josh Hader MLW 32.9 27 44 3 Raisel Iglesias LAA 47.38 33 61 4 Emmanuel Clase CLE 49.83 36 65 5 Edwin Diaz NYM 55.76 45 68 6 Ryan Pressly HOU 57.55 48 74 7 Aroldis Chapman NYY 67.28 51 83 8 Kenley Jansen LAD 75.28 57 96 9 Will Smith ATL 81.93 56 111 10 Jordan Romano TOR 87.55 65 104 11 Mark Melancon ARZ 109.17 67 164 12 Craig Kimbrel CWS 114.52 86 147 13 Giovanny Gallegos STL 86.28 61 112 14 Corey Knebel PHI 134.9 103 173 15 Dylan Floro MIA 199.97 159 237
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My Draft and Hold, NFBC style draft (done on Fantrax) currently ongoing. Top 15 closers are:
1. Hendrix 29
2. Hader 32 (same guy as Hendrix!)
3. Iglesias 54
4. Diaz 67 (same guy as Iglesias!)
5. Pressly 70
6. Clase 73
7. Chapman 75
8. Jansen 77
9. Smith 82
10. Kimbrel 105
11. Gallegos 107
12. Romano 114
13. S. Barlow 118
14. Treinen 129
15. Melancon 138
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The first column is the number of Saves plus 1/2 holds the second column is where the team finished (some ties in there). This is an AL only 5x5 12 team $260 budget keeper. I finished lower than usual as I traded off saves in my dump rebuild.
111-4th
104-2nd
100.5-1st
100.5-5th
82-3rd
77.5-10th
76.5-5th
67-7th
65.5-11th
58.5-9th -Me
39.5-11th
19.5-8th
This league will typically spend 25-30 on the handful of "best" closers at auction. Around this time of year they start getting nervous about the cost of keeping them and start to offer them on the trade block. If no one bites they get tossed back in and go for about the same cost give or take a buck or two depending on who is available and money spent.
We have a winter cutdown and waiver draft. These "expensive" closers are never waived at this time. But some of them do not make it past the final roster cutdown pre auction.
None of the top closers listed so far in this thread will be available at auction. Most of the speculative closers are also kept so far.
If any are dropped I will need to spend money at the auction to get a first line closer (if available). I have a very strong team going into the auction but have no for sure saves.
I received an offer last night of my 3rd round reserve pick (3.05) for Chapman 27B and his 12.02 pick. I am very tempted to hit the accept button. Or maybe counter to bring his 12.0 pick up to 8.02 and see what happens. I might be paying a few dollars premium, but at least I have my main closer and get set my tiers for my budget without this unknown.
Thoughts?
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Originally posted by Gregg View PostThe first column is the number of Saves plus 1/2 holds the second column is where the team finished (some ties in there). This is an AL only 5x5 12 team $260 budget keeper. I finished lower than usual as I traded off saves in my dump rebuild.
111-4th
104-2nd
100.5-1st
100.5-5th
82-3rd
77.5-10th
76.5-5th
67-7th
65.5-11th
58.5-9th -Me
39.5-11th
19.5-8th
This league will typically spend 25-30 on the handful of "best" closers at auction. Around this time of year they start getting nervous about the cost of keeping them and start to offer them on the trade block. If no one bites they get tossed back in and go for about the same cost give or take a buck or two depending on who is available and money spent.
We have a winter cutdown and waiver draft. These "expensive" closers are never waived at this time. But some of them do not make it past the final roster cutdown pre auction.
None of the top closers listed so far in this thread will be available at auction. Most of the speculative closers are also kept so far.
If any are dropped I will need to spend money at the auction to get a first line closer (if available). I have a very strong team going into the auction but have no for sure saves.
I received an offer last night of my 3rd round reserve pick (3.05) for Chapman 27B and his 12.02 pick. I am very tempted to hit the accept button. Or maybe counter to bring his 12.0 pick up to 8.02 and see what happens. I might be paying a few dollars premium, but at least I have my main closer and get set my tiers for my budget without this unknown.
Thoughts?
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