Do you have people in your life that have wronged you.....

[Steve 2.0]

I mean no disrespect by this question. Why do you think you should forgive them?

I did see you mentioned below that you would like to get rid of the emotional baggage I think that might be different than the feeling of should forgive?

I think forgiving them would reduce the anger I feel thus making ME feel better.

[Gregg]

I think forgiving them would reduce the anger I feel thus making ME feel better.

It would.

When we forgive somebody it is not saying what they did is ok. It is saying i am not going to punish them for it. I am not going to hold it over them. I am not going to bring it up again.

Have you ever done something that hurt someone (intentionally or unintentionally) and really felt bad about it? Desperately wanting them to forgive you. I have several times. This has made me more willing to forgive others.

Some forgave me a few did not. I am at peace with that.

As far as me forgiving others. I try to be intentional in that and show grace. This does not mean that I have not had to set some boundaries. I have peace with that too.

[Mithrandir]

I think forgiving them would reduce the anger I feel thus making ME feel better.

But are you really forgiving them or just providing lip service to your brain? I have never forgiven people who have seriously wronged me because i don't believe that it does any good and you are lying to yourself. It's perfectly normal and fine to NOT forgive those people while moving on with your life. It's better to accept that they are an asshole, etc and move on than to forgive.

If you cannot move on and continue to be negatively affected by them, then maybe forgiving them would help. Everyone is different so maybe it would work for you.

[heyelander]

I'm not sure anyone has ever wronged me. I tend to take people as they are. that said... if someone is an ass, it gets factored into the data forever, right?

I changed schools every year from 5th - 10th grade, so I'm use to people going in and out of my life.

I'm pretty much low-contact with everyone in the world, so no real need to go no-contact.

[Kevin Seitzer]

But are you really forgiving them or just providing lip service to your brain? I have never forgiven people who have seriously wronged me because i don't believe that it does any good and you are lying to yourself. It's perfectly normal and fine to NOT forgive those people while moving on with your life. It's better to accept that they are an asshole, etc and move on than to forgive.

If you cannot move on and continue to be negatively affected by them, then maybe forgiving them would help. Everyone is different so maybe it would work for you.

I think it depends on what you mean by forgiveness. When I talk about forgiveness, it's not about saying what they did was okay. It's about saying that I want to let it go because I don't want it to eat me up inside any more. If they haven't asked for forgiveness and changed their ways, I certainly wouldn't want to let them back into my life or to be vulnerable with them in any way. But I also don't want my emotions to continue to hold me hostage to a situation that is in the past and beyond changing. I want freedom to let the past be in the past and to move on emotionally. That is easier said than done in some situations. From what I have read and heard about trauma, particularly if it was abuse or trauma that was experienced physically, that trauma and the related negative emotions can be encoded in our body's physical reaction to the memories and it's not as simple as just saying or deciding you want to let something go. You actually have to work through the physical dimension of the emotional response and pain as well. (A sign of this is if you have the classic fight-or-flight responses when the memories come up, e.g., heart beats faster, muscles tense up, etc.) I say that, and I think it's true with my head. I'm not sure how good I actually have been at working through that in real life. I have taken some steps toward finding peace, but yet it is something that also seems like it has to be repeated and may never be complete. I wish it could be.

[heyelander]

I think it depends on what you mean by forgiveness. When I talk about forgiveness, it's not about saying what they did was okay. It's about saying that I want to let it go because I don't want it to eat me up inside any more.

I just don't have the energy or passion to stay angry for long... I also figure most things are probably my fault and I turn the anger into depression.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I just don't have the energy or passion to stay angry for long... I also figure most things are probably my fault and I turn the anger into depression.

I've done that, too. It was not acceptable to express anger in my family growing up, so I just learned to swallow it. Eventually that had health consequences for me. In addition to going through multiple periods of depression in my life, I've had a burst appendix and a serious episode of pericarditis (heart lining infection), and I've come to believe that those were at least partly because I was swallowing my anger and poisoning myself both emotionally and physically as a result. I've since learned better how to recognize what my negative emotions are and to express them. Even if the process can be a bit messy, it's better in the long term than internalizing everything. At least that has been my experience.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I think it depends on what you mean by forgiveness. When I talk about forgiveness, it's not about saying what they did was okay. It's about saying that I want to let it go because I don't want it to eat me up inside any more. If they haven't asked for forgiveness and changed their ways, I certainly wouldn't want to let them back into my life or to be vulnerable with them in any way. But I also don't want my emotions to continue to hold me hostage to a situation that is in the past and beyond changing. I want freedom to let the past be in the past and to move on emotionally. That is easier said than done in some situations. From what I have read and heard about trauma, particularly if it was abuse or trauma that was experienced physically, that trauma and the related negative emotions can be encoded in our body's physical reaction to the memories and it's not as simple as just saying or deciding you want to let something go. You actually have to work through the physical dimension of the emotional response and pain as well. (A sign of this is if you have the classic fight-or-flight responses when the memories come up, e.g., heart beats faster, muscles tense up, etc.) I say that, and I think it's true with my head. I'm not sure how good I actually have been at working through that in real life. I have taken some steps toward finding peace, but yet it is something that also seems like it has to be repeated and may never be complete. I wish it could be.

Strangely enough, the fact I vent when I get angry or feel wronged has helped me considerably. Though I never forget, I don't carry the emotional weight that sometimes comes with feeling wronged. It allows me to move forward without burden. Now I don't forgive when I feel wronged because I believe in accountability--those who've wronged me would have to broach the subject and apologize to me and THEN I will choose to forgive or not.

Subsequently, I have actively sought out those I know/feel I've wronged to ask forgiveness when and where I can (some people choose not to engage, understandably) I then accept whatever consequence I may receive--be it forgiveness and a second chance or a F U never contact me again.

Going forward I can only do my best NOT to be that guy who wrongs someone and avoid those who I feel might wrong me or mine. As for forgiveness, I doubt I'll have much opportunity to ask or give it given my age and recent withdrawal from most every social platform.

I hope you succeed in your search for peace.

HNY

[Gregg]

if someone is an ass, it gets factored into the data forever, right?

I would hope not. I have met some people that were having a bad day and first impression was they are a jackass. Then later found out they were pretty good.

I would not like to get judged on one of my bad days.

[heyelander]

I would hope not. I have met some people that were having a bad day and first impression was they are a jackass. Then later found out they were pretty good.

I would not like to get judged on one of my bad days.

It's just a data point. There are many

[Mithrandir]

I would hope not. I have met some people that were having a bad day and first impression was they are a jackass. Then later found out they were pretty good.

I would not like to get judged on one of my bad days.

That is different than someone doing something horrifically wrong to you. I've too have judged people one way only to find out that they are pretty cool.

[Gregg]

That is different than someone doing something horrifically wrong to you. I've too have judged people one way only to find out that they are pretty cool.

I agree that it is different.

My response was to: If someone is an ass, it gets factored into the data forever, right?

I do not think it should get in the data forever.

[Kevin Seitzer]

The people who have hurt me and whom I have a hard time forgiving are not the people who I thought were bad based on a mistaken first impression where I just needed to extend a little grace. They are the people who I thought were good and trustworthy and over time showed themselves to be something else.

I think the church is pretty good at teaching us how to handle the first kind of situation. In my experience the church as a whole is pretty bad at teaching how to handle the second kind of situations (about enforcing appropriate boundaries, avoiding codependency, and dealing with trauma). It teaches a lot about "forgiveness" and "grace" that is really twisted and/or shallow and not at all what Jesus taught or practiced.

[Mithrandir]

I agree that it is different.

My response was to: If someone is an ass, it gets factored into the data forever, right?

I do not think it should get in the data forever.

I agree with you. Thumbs up!

[Gregg]

To take the discussion a little further have any of you really wanted/needed someone to forgive you?

I have. Knowing that I did not deserve or expect to be forgiven did not mean that I did not want that grace.

In my repentant state, also means that I did not want to commit the act again.

I think knowing what it feels like to want/need to be forgiven does make me want to extend the same to others.