The new COVID thread

[johnnya24]

You may have already mentioned it, but if you don't mind, can you tell me if you are vaccinated, and if so when you got the shots?
Thanks

Double Vaxxed. Got booster today in fact. 3x Pfizer.

Been semi-isolating since last week until I got my booster. Will have a lot of last minute shopping on Xmas Eve (when the booster kicks in)!

[GwynnInTheHall]

Double Vaxxed. Got booster today in fact. 3x Pfizer.

Been semi-isolating since last week until I got my booster. Will have a lot of last minute shopping on Xmas Eve (when the booster kicks in)!

Are you hoping to get omicron for the super immunity?

[johnnya24]

Are you hoping to get omicron for the super immunity?

Not from an intentional point of view. But I don't think we're going to have a choice. This is too infectious and overly draconian isolation measures won't work this time. I just hope our infrastructure and institutions adapt to this fact fast enough. We're seeing the slow uptake of this POV thankfully - UK reduced contact isolation time from 10 to 7 days etc. and measures to help tide-over hospitality.

[johnnya24]

On the other hand, we have a system set up to cope-with the much more dangerous Alpha/Beta and Delta variants (but less contagious). The procedures we have in place to manage Delta could cripple our infrastructure if it's faced with an inundation. In the UK we have a ping system that, by law, demands you isolate if you have been in the vicinity of a positive patient. Given the predicted rate of infections for Omicron, our entire Health service will surely get pinged all at once? If there are no staff in our hospitals because of a farcical-ping-frenzy ... we are going to be f****d. I haven't heard anyone even mention the ping system?

This inundation is going to require fast, decisive, pro-active political leadership - and since modern democracies do-not and can-not provide this, I think we're f****d either way. Even if Omicron is effectively the end of the pandemic, and come March/April we have reached herd-immunity ... this is going to be FUGLY!

One last bungling political farce before normality hopefully returns. Shit show incoming boys.

Or instead, let's go with reacting to a problem after it happens

Nearly 19,000 NHS staff were absent for Covid-related reasons on 19 December - up 54% on the previous week.

[Sour Masher]

What do you all think of the WHO chief saying the following:

“Blanket booster programmes are likely to prolong the pandemic, rather than ending it, by diverting supply to countries that already have high levels of vaccination coverage, giving the virus more opportunity to spread and mutate,” said Tedros.

He stressed that the priority must be on supporting countries to vaccinate 40 per cent of their populations as quickly as possible, and 70 per cent by the middle of 2022.

“It’s important to remember that the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are in unvaccinated people, not un-boosted people,” he said. “And we must be very clear that the vaccines we have, remain effective against both the Delta and Omicron variants.”

[The Feral Slasher]

What do you all think of the WHO chief saying the following:

“Blanket booster programmes are likely to prolong the pandemic, rather than ending it, by diverting supply to countries that already have high levels of vaccination coverage, giving the virus more opportunity to spread and mutate,” said Tedros.

He stressed that the priority must be on supporting countries to vaccinate 40 per cent of their populations as quickly as possible, and 70 per cent by the middle of 2022.

“It’s important to remember that the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are in unvaccinated people, not un-boosted people,” he said. “And we must be very clear that the vaccines we have, remain effective against both the Delta and Omicron variants.”

Not sure where he comes up with the 40 and 70 percent figures, but I think he is correct that the total number of deaths would likely be minimized if first vaccinations were prioritized over boosters. But the deaths of people in poorer countries (or poor people in richer countries, I suppose) don't seem to be a huge factor in policy decisions made by the larger governments. Intellectual property waivers were never approved for any of the COVID vaccines as far as I know. Greatly increasing the vaccine supply would be very helpful in fighting COVID on a global level, but that isn't a priority. So I'd be surprised if any richer nations would agree to forego boosters so that the unvaccinated can get a first shot.

[johnnya24]

What do you all think of the WHO chief saying the following:

“Blanket booster programmes are likely to prolong the pandemic, rather than ending it, by diverting supply to countries that already have high levels of vaccination coverage, giving the virus more opportunity to spread and mutate,” said Tedros.

He stressed that the priority must be on supporting countries to vaccinate 40 per cent of their populations as quickly as possible, and 70 per cent by the middle of 2022.

“It’s important to remember that the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are in unvaccinated people, not un-boosted people,” he said. “And we must be very clear that the vaccines we have, remain effective against both the Delta and Omicron variants.”

Typical nonsense from the WHO. I wonder what the future holds for the WHO? They have been pathetic during this pandemic.

It's not an either/or. It's a both. Vaccinating the entire world will take a lot more than the 6 months we've been working on it. The logistics of that alone are mindboggling. But we can boost the majority of our populations in a month or so, which keeps our economies open, and which in turn, benefits the entire world.

This kind of thinking and reasoning is what I've come to expect from the WHO.

[Bene Futuis]

What do you all think of the WHO chief saying the following:

“Blanket booster programmes are likely to prolong the pandemic, rather than ending it, by diverting supply to countries that already have high levels of vaccination coverage, giving the virus more opportunity to spread and mutate,” said Tedros.

He stressed that the priority must be on supporting countries to vaccinate 40 per cent of their populations as quickly as possible, and 70 per cent by the middle of 2022.

“It’s important to remember that the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are in unvaccinated people, not un-boosted people,” he said. “And we must be very clear that the vaccines we have, remain effective against both the Delta and Omicron variants.”

100% right on the money, although I understand why those of us in the rich countries would disagree. I guess that's why it's the W HO. The inequitable distribution of COVID vaccinations is a disgrace and has served to prolong the pandemic, even for those countries among us lucky enough to have access to 3rd or even 4th shots.

“I will not stay silent when companies and countries that control the global supply of vaccines think the world’s poor should be satisfied with leftovers,” he told a news conference. “Because manufacturers have prioritized or been legally obliged to fulfill bilateral deals with rich countries willing to pay top dollar, low income countries have been deprived of the tools to protect their people.”

Fucking exactly.

[johnnya24]

100% right on the money, although I understand why those of us in the rich countries would disagree. I guess that's why it's the W HO. The inequitable distribution of COVID vaccinations is a disgrace and has served to prolong the pandemic, even for those countries among us lucky enough to have access to 3rd or even 4th shots.

“I will not stay silent when companies and countries that control the global supply of vaccines think the world’s poor should be satisfied with leftovers,” he told a news conference. “Because manufacturers have prioritized or been legally obliged to fulfill bilateral deals with rich countries willing to pay top dollar, low income countries have been deprived of the tools to protect their people.”

Fucking exactly.

The presupposition of this is just wrong. The pandemic has not been prolonged by the unequal distribution of vaccines between rich and poor countries. That is just a false statement, whoever made it. No wonder people get attracted to conspiracy theories when our officials make statements like this. I get that this guy is frustrated and angry, and rightly so, but you can't make stupid statements like that from a position of authority.

The strategy of vaccinating the richer parts of the world then the poorer sounds awful, but is/was the only way -- pragmatic and coldly rationalistic, but the only realistic option. A thin "fair" spread would have been literally pointless.

As such, "Unequal / inequitable / unfair" - these are necessary conditions of how we have had to deal with this problem, because the range of our resources has moved from zero ---> limited. You can only do so much with limited resources. While I wholeheartedly agree that we should/could have done more, realistically us "doing more" would extend "limited" to "merely adequate" at best. Let's be honest. It's pure fantasy to think we could have vaccinated the world to such an extent that it would prevent spread and mutation. So why make a statement like that? Well because that's become the norm with the WHO.

At no point could we have vaccinated the world in 6-8 months. And even if we did, we would never have had the logistical capabilities to execute on that timescale. And even if we could execute, you'd run into all sorts of roadblocks (vaccine hesitation / skepticism etc) that would require years of education and cajoling (Nigeria dumped 1 million doses due to vaccine skepticism).

That said, I agree with your sentiment that we clearly reneged on our responsibilities once we completed our own initial vaccine programs, and we need to (a) learn from that and (b) put in place stricter measures to make sure that doesn't happen again. Which for me has to take place and a governmental/inter-governmental (UN) level, because there is only so far that you can realistically compel private companies in a globalized free market economy - that means realistic funding and price-controls in times of crisis to cover R&D, manufacture and ramping in a way that makes it still economically viable/attractive for pharmaceutical companies to "care". After all, pharmaceutical companies are by-and-large scumbag corporations, not charitable organizations - yet we are almost completely reliant on them. That is a harsh reality that, sadly, can only be dealt with pragmatically.

The world's population is only going in one-direction, and viral pandemics could be a new-norm.

It looks like this virus is going to take care of mass Covid-immunization for us. But Omicron is/was pure luck - Omicron could easily have been more infectious and more pathogenic. That's the lesson we have to learn for the future, but let's face it, that's pure fantasy also. Within 6 months of this pandemic ending, we'll have already forgot, just like we forgot when our initial vaccine programs were complete.

[Bene Futuis]

The error in phrasing was my fault, not the WHO. I should have said "are likely to prolong the pandemic" instead of "has served to prolong the pandemic". So I suppose I'm to blame for people running to nurses instead of appropriate health officials for COVID information.

[Bene Futuis]

It seems like it would have cost about $50 billion, according to the IMF, to develop a coordinated global response to COVID - in other words, to get to the WHO/IMF/WTO/World Bank joint goals as previously stated. The economics support engaging in such an effort, too, since we'll be looking at >$1 trillion in lost DNP globally due to our failures. The WHO position, contrary to what you're saying, is pretty widely held by what is scientifically termed an absolute shitload of qualified folks who know what they're talking about. For example, https://healthpolicy.duke.edu/public...ovid-19-relief (" Inequitable access to high-quality vaccines threatens to prolong the pandemic and destabilize economies and societies around the world.")

[Teenwolf]

Well, this Christmas sure has sucked. My wife tested positive for Covid yesterday. We had to cancel my daughter's Xmas visit and postpone until May. We live in a 1 bedroom apartment and sleeping on the couch has been rough. Not sure if I contracted a very mild case or not, as I've had a bit of a sore throat but no coughing. I tested negative on the rapid test, but so did my wife, then positive 2 days later. My wife is feeling very rough now, today will be day 4 of symptoms for her. We are double vaxed, but aren't eligible for boosters until January. Ugh.

[Sour Masher]

Well, this Christmas sure has sucked. My wife tested positive for Covid yesterday. We had to cancel my daughter's Xmas visit and postpone until May. We live in a 1 bedroom apartment and sleeping on the couch has been rough. Not sure if I contracted a very mild case or not, as I've had a bit of a sore throat but no coughing. I tested negative on the rapid test, but so did my wife, then positive 2 days later. My wife is feeling very rough now, today will be day 4 of symptoms for her. We are double vaxed, but aren't eligible for boosters until January. Ugh.

That sucks, TW. I hope your wife gets better soon and enjoy getting together when all of you are better.

[Gregg]

Well, this Christmas sure has sucked. My wife tested positive for Covid yesterday. We had to cancel my daughter's Xmas visit and postpone until May. We live in a 1 bedroom apartment and sleeping on the couch has been rough. Not sure if I contracted a very mild case or not, as I've had a bit of a sore throat but no coughing. I tested negative on the rapid test, but so did my wife, then positive 2 days later. My wife is feeling very rough now, today will be day 4 of symptoms for her. We are double vaxed, but aren't eligible for boosters until January. Ugh.

Prayers for fast recovery for both of you.

[TranaGreg]

Well, this Christmas sure has sucked. My wife tested positive for Covid yesterday. We had to cancel my daughter's Xmas visit and postpone until May. We live in a 1 bedroom apartment and sleeping on the couch has been rough. Not sure if I contracted a very mild case or not, as I've had a bit of a sore throat but no coughing. I tested negative on the rapid test, but so did my wife, then positive 2 days later. My wife is feeling very rough now, today will be day 4 of symptoms for her. We are double vaxed, but aren't eligible for boosters until January. Ugh.

that does suck, hope everyone is feeling better. And if you're still in Thunder Bay, the requirements for the booster dropped to three months (tho it doesn't matter now you're positive)