Pitching cheating follies: Time to Pay the Fiddler, says ESPN

[Judge Jude]

ALL HANDS ON DECK
REPEAT - ALL HANDS ON DECK
THIS IS NOT A DRILL
MAY GOD HELP US ALL

Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
The memo outlining the plan for foreign substances is coming tomorrow, sources tell ESPN, and it includes a 10-day suspension with pay for anyone caught with any sort of substance, from sunscreen mixed with rosin to Spider Tack.

[Sour Masher]

This is surprising to me. Hasn't this been the worst kept secret in baseball for years? Isn't a degree of this at least not only tacitly accepted, but embraced by all, because it leads to better control and thus less danger for batters? I know it has gotten out of hand with the level of the stuff being used now leading to crazy spin rates, but a crack down on any substance of any kind seems like a "this is why we can't have nice things" move.

In any event, who do we think will be most affected by this? Is there any telling which top pitchers don't use anything at all? Is this gonna affect so many arms that it all evens out in terms of rankings and tiers, or we are confident some top arms use nothing so will not be affected?

And will pitchers still use and take their chances? It feels like the PED crack down all over again.

[Judge Jude]

Bauer got kicked around in his last start, and I don't imagine Gerrit Cole is happy - given his quasi-confession last week.

the scuttlebutt has the Dodgers as the worst offenders, and obviously the Astros are not above cutting corners.

it does add an interesting dynamic to pennant races (says the owner deep deep in last place), both in MLB and fantasy.

to be added: 10-day suspension is no big deal, you just miss a start. what if you do it again?

UPDATE from SI.com on that Angels clubhouse manager who got busted:

"Harkins remains stunned at his status as the first - and so far only - casualty of MLB’s recent war on pitch doctoring. He does not deny the allegations; he readily admits that he’d been supplying both Angels and opposing pitchers for more than a decade with his home-cooked mixture of liquid pine tar, solid pine tar (often called Mota stick) and rosin. He claims he’d done special orders for some of the biggest names in the game, including Nationals ace Max Scherzer and Yankees ace Gerrit Cole, then with the Astros.

"Harkins shared with SI screenshots of text messages that support his claims, including an exchange with a contact who identified himself as Cole, the hurler who has been at the center of much of the recent controversy around pitch doctoring. Harkins also shared the underlying phone numbers for all text exchanges; SI used various public records databases to confirm that the numbers are associated—or were associated at the time they were sent—with the people Harkins claimed to be texting with."

[rhd]

I dont know all of the details of this issue but I heard people talk about this for a while on a recent podcast. The Japanese supposedly dont have this problem in their league. This is supposedly because the baseballs they use are easier to grip, not slick like MLB balls. Since MLB supposedly has tight control over the baseballs they use because they own Rawlings, why dont they just have Rawlings make baseballs that are easier to grip so you dont have to use any illegal substance to grip them tight enough so that they dont pose a danger to hitters? MLB is negligent not only for ignoring these rampant violations for years and waiting until there was a crisis before doing anything but also for not using "safer" baseballs, which apparently is not hard to do because the Japanese are already doing it.

[chancellor]

10-day suspension with pay...yeah, like that'll do much. Once they change that to "without" pay, I'll believe MLB is serious about it.

The myth that these substances improve control is just that - the real reason pitchers are using them is spin rate and break, nothing more. Put a foreign substance on your hand and/or the ball, and you can make a baseball do incredible things and move in almost unbelievable ways.

[Ken]

10-day suspension with pay...yeah, like that'll do much. Once they change that to "without" pay, I'll believe MLB is serious about it.

That's a strange ask since they can't actually do that, right? That would require a change to the CBA.

You are wanting the league to implement new rules that take away money from the players without any negotiation through the CBA? Why even have a CBA in that case?

[Mithrandir]

That's a strange ask since they can't actually do that, right? That would require a change to the CBA.

You are wanting the league to implement new rules that take away money from the players without any negotiation through the CBA? Why even have a CBA in that case?

Chance didn't really say to start enforcing it without a change in the CBA. It seems to me that he was just thinking aloud.

[Sour Masher]

10-day suspension with pay...yeah, like that'll do much. Once they change that to "without" pay, I'll believe MLB is serious about it.

The myth that these substances improve control is just that - the real reason pitchers are using them is spin rate and break, nothing more. Put a foreign substance on your hand and/or the ball, and you can make a baseball do incredible things and move in almost unbelievable ways.

Yeah, the suspension is a slap on the wrist compared with PEDs. I agree that in itself is not a huge deterrent. But in naming and shaming, there may be concerns about legacy, especially for those who could be HOF bound, like Scherzer, Cole, and Bauer. Will there be anything close to the cheating stigma of those popped for PEDs? Maybe not now, but that could develop. After all, many insist that substances like this give every bit or more of an edge to pitchers than steroids ever gave to hitters. Will a potentially HOF bound arm risk getting officially popped given the uncertain risk it may have for their image? And if HOF status isn't a main concern, what about endorsements? That is where the real financial hit could take place, if the perception becomes "this is cheating, like PEDs, and we don't want you being a spokesperson for us anymore."

[Judge Jude]

the "with pay" clause apparently circumvents union ability to appeal

[Mithrandir]

Yeah, the suspension is a slap on the wrist compared with PEDs. I agree that in itself is not a huge deterrent. But in naming and shaming, there may be concerns about legacy, especially for those who could be HOF bound, like Scherzer, Cole, and Bauer. Will there be anything close to the cheating stigma of those popped for PEDs? Maybe not now, but that could develop. After all, many insist that substances like this give every bit or more of an edge to pitchers than steroids ever gave to hitters. Will a potentially HOF bound arm risk getting officially popped given the uncertain risk it may have for their image? And if HOF status isn't a main concern, what about endorsements? That is where the real financial hit could take place, if the perception becomes "this is cheating, like PEDs, and we don't want you being a spokesperson for us anymore."

Baseball players are spokespersons? I guess there are a few??

[Sour Masher]

Baseball players are spokespersons? I guess there are a few??

I am thinking endorsement deals more than Fred McGriff touting instruction videos.

[Mithrandir]

I am thinking endorsement deals more than Fred McGriff touting instruction videos.

what endorsement deals? I am struggling to think of any MLB players with endorsements deals. There has to be some though.

[Sour Masher]

what endorsement deals? I am struggling to think of any MLB players with endorsements deals. There has to be some though.

Looking it up, they are shockingly low. Big names do get endorsements, but unlike basketball, they make up just a tiny portion of their total comp. For instance, Trout makes 39 million a year and only 3 million of that is endorsement deals, which is only one million more than Stanton, for some reason, and less than half of what Harper makes--he leads the way with 6.5 million, a big chunk of it with Under Armor. I am sure back in his day, Jeter endorsed gift baskets.

https://www.lineups.com/articles/hig...-endorsements/

[Sour Masher]

If I am Trout, I am pretty peeved at my agent about Harper getting more tan double the money in endorsements.

[Ken]

If I am Trout, I am pretty peeved at my agent about Harper getting more tan double the money in endorsements.

If I am Trout I'm wondering why I'd want to put in all that extra outside effort for a few million when I'm making $36M a year just for focusing on baseball. If it was on the scale of $10M, sure, but is it worth it to him at that price point?