Official Cryptocurrency Thread

[Sour Masher]

This is the part I don’t understand. Why is it finite?

Cuz no more can be created within the bitcoin block chain, so if someone tried, it would result in a fork to a different thing, like bitcoin cash. That has happened, but the offshoots are not as valuable as the original. Also, there are far less than 21 million coins available, as many have been lost. In fact, I'd venture the guess that if Satoshi is alive, he must have lost his million or so coins, because I have to believe at some point on this crazy ride, he'd have cashed in some of what is now over 50 billon us dollars worth of bitcoin, but he has not.

[heyelander]

I don't think most people think of bitcoin as a replacement for fiat. It is more hoped to be a replacement of gold, but with a vastly worst environmental impact. I cannot get past how needlessly wasteful it is. The fact that Elon Musk is obsessed with going electric and green, but pumped Bitcoin is crazy to me. Mining bitcoin uses more dirty energy than many countries do.

But the attraction of it is that it is allegedly finite. Once it is all mined, there will never be any more. Scarcity is one driver for it. If Bitcoin really did completely replace gold as a safety net to inflation for nations and investors, it could be worth nearly 500k per coin, which is what hodlers tell themselves.

That's pretty nasty when you are saying that it's worse for the environment than actual gold mining!

[Sour Masher]

That's pretty nasty when you are saying that it's worse for the environment than actual gold mining!

Yeah, while it is less messy than gold mining is, it indirectly is much worse, because of the massive amounts of energy used, and how that energy is largely made. It gets worse with every split and as more compete for fewer coins. Mining coins consumes more energy than the entire country of Argentina, and it will continue to rise with the price of Bitcoin. It is unessary and incredibly wasteful: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

"Mining" for the cryptocurrency is power-hungry, involving heavy computer calculations to verify transactions.

Cambridge researchers say it consumes around 121.36 terawatt-hours (TWh) a year - and is unlikely to fall unless the value of the currency slumps.

Critics say electric-car firm Tesla's decision to invest heavily in Bitcoin undermines its environmental image.

The currency's value hit a record $48,000 (Ł34,820) this week. following Tesla's announcement that it had bought about $1.5bn bitcoin and planned to accept it as payment in future.

But the rising price offers even more incentive to Bitcoin miners to run more and more machines.

And as the price increases, so does the energy consumption, according to Michel Rauchs, researcher at The Cambridge Centre for Alternative Finance, who co-created the online tool that generates these estimates.

“It is really by design that Bitcoin consumes that much electricity,” Mr Rauchs told BBC’s Tech Tent podcast. “This is not something that will change in the future unless the Bitcoin price is going to significantly go down."

[chancellor]

Yeah, while it is less messy than gold mining is, it indirectly is much worse, because of the massive amounts of energy used, and how that energy is largely made. It gets worse with every split and as more compete for fewer coins. Mining coins consumes more energy than the entire country of Argentina, and it will continue to rise with the price of Bitcoin. It is unessary and incredibly wasteful: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

Using the BBC reference price of $0.05/kWh, that's about $6.1 bn/year spent on bitcoin mining. I'm surprised the BBC used that figure - British industrial electrical costs are around 10-15p/kWh, for example. $0.05/kWh is within the reach of pretty much only the biggest US industrial users of power, and certainly not even that good in much of the US. Most of the rest of the world is 2x-5x our costs.

[Gregg]

Would you invest in Bitcoin now?

[Sour Masher]

Would you invest in Bitcoin now?

I continue to be turned off by the environmental impact, so I have been tempted, but have never invested. In addition to that, I just don't see Bitcoin being "the" major crypto long term. There is just too much wrong with it. Shorter term, like over the next 5 years, I could see it continuing to rollcoaster and make and lose people a lot of money. To me, all of its value is vaporware long term, and shorter term, could see it falling below 20k, maybe even 10k, before speculators see an opportunity to pump and dump back up to 40-50k or so. I think the really big exponential growth is long gone. You may be able to double your money if you get in at the bottom and sell at the top, but with great risk, and with tremendous negative impact on the environment. The temptation was higher when you could dream of 100x return, but that is never happening again. If it is even a thing 20 years from now, I will be surprised.

[Gregg]

I continue to be turned off by the environmental impact, so I have been tempted, but have never invested. In addition to that, I just don't see Bitcoin being "the" major crypto long term. There is just too much wrong with it. Shorter term, like over the next 5 years, I could see it continuing to rollcoaster and make and lose people a lot of money. To me, all of its value is vaporware long term, and shorter term, could see it falling below 20k, maybe even 10k, before speculators see an opportunity to pump and dump back up to 40-50k or so. I think the really big exponential growth is long gone. You may be able to double your money if you get in at the bottom and sell at the top, but with great risk, and with tremendous negative impact on the environment. The temptation was higher when you could dream of 100x return, but that is never happening again. If it is even a thing 20 years from now, I will be surprised.

What do you see as the major crypto over the next 10 years?

[Sour Masher]

What do you see as the major crypto over the next 10 years?

I am not sure it exists yet, but I am sure many fortunes will be made and lost on all the ones until we get to the place where cryptos fulfill their potential and promises (part of the issue is that different cryptos promise different things, with BTC promising to be a finite store of value destined to go up in value, whereas etherium as a platform has more practical uses, but is also not limited in quantity in the same way as BTC, so it has a different value proposition).

Another thing looming long term, although I know crypto creators are certainly aware of this and the tech will evolve as needed in the cat and mouse of security, is quantum computing. What is currently safe will not be once that breakthrough is made, and I think some major losses could be had here and there in the back and forth of secure/not secure. China may be in the lead on QC right now, and it won't be too long (less than a decade, probably), before not only major states, but well-financed criminals, could have the QC power needed to break crypto as it currently exists.

[Steve 2.0]

[Sour Masher]

If you are an investor in Bitcoin investor in South Africa, you are screwed. The largest crypto heist ever has happened there, with two brothers draining the exchange and going to ground. It may still be recoverable, but the efforts will have to be funded and led by investors, as the government does not consider crypto real currency so it is not being pursued like it would be if this were a bank stealing all of the cash from its clients: https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/new...p0i?li=BBnbfcL

[madducks]

RIP crypto investor confidence.

[revo]

RIP crypto investor confidence.

This is nothing new, unfortunately. Similar episodes happened a few years back, before the entire crypto craze.

[Sour Masher]

This is nothing new, unfortunately. Similar episodes happened a few years back, before the entire crypto craze.

Yeah, but $3.6 billion US, that is a chunk of change right there. The fact that any two people could access all that and bounce is pretty amazing to me.

[Ken]

Yeah, but $3.6 billion US, that is a chunk of change right there. The fact that any two people could access all that and bounce is pretty amazing to me.

5.5 billion still missing from silk road.

[rhd]

Havent paid any attention to this thread before but here's a video w some interesting info:

Dont know how much this really will depress the crypto market long-term, as it seems to be pretty resilient. And dont know how long it will take to move most of the crypto mining companies out of China but after that eventually happens, does crypto continue on as it did before the crackdown?