Oregon legalizes all drugs

[Gregg]

If the illegal substances you were addicted to were decriminalized in your state, would you be more temped to relapse? Do you think others might be? If treatments to help overcome addiction were more available in your state, do you think more would use them? Would more recover and more quickly with prevention and punishment were replaced by education and recovery?

Also, do you have any general advice on what to tell an addict who keeps relapsing? My best friend from high school keeps relapsing and if he does it again, his wife will leave him (she ironically got him hooked on coke to begin with, but she, apparently, can use it in moderation and seems able to stop, without abusing it like he does). I've recommended positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, he has a sponsor, and calls me too sometimes to get talked down, when he wants to be talked down. He understands the consequences. Nothing is working long term so far. His longest stretch is right now, I think he is going on 6 weeks, but he seems like he will break soon.

One big concern I have about legalization vs decriminalization of more addictive and destructive drugs (stuff other, than pot) is how increased ease of access could negatively impact those trying to recover. My friend is old school with phone numbers, so memorized their dealer's number. If he had not and deleted and blocked it, he would have no other way to get what he wants. If he was somehow cut off from this one person, he'd be forced into long term recovery, unless he took steps to find another dealer. And as many people I have known that do drugs, that step has always perplexed me. That first step--is it always a casual conversation, an offered drug? It surprises me how many people seem to find a steady supply of drugs, even with it being illegal and dealers getting locked up. I do wonder if it would become much easier to find that supply, it will lead more people to abusing drugs. Though, the net result seems positive based on the results in Portugal.

My advice is call people (no matter what before they use). Sponsor should be the first call as they know what the addict is going through. To some it would seem strange if I made the statement, I caught my shirt on the door and ripped off a button, I want snort coke. To normies (non addicts) that sounds insane. To me that seems about normal and we have to deal with it. That is where the Sponsor comes in.

The 12 steps work. Commit to working through them with your sponsor. This is not a homework assignment. It is the steps to freedom. No excuses work the steps. If they are not willing they are not ready to get sober/clean. Even if your friend thinks he doesn't want to be sober and starts to work the steps, that would be a very good sign that he may really down deep want to quit.

His wife should quit doing drugs and drinking all together for the love of him. If she doesn't have a problem the choice should be easy (after some thought). If she says I don't have a problem and shouldn't have to quit because he has the problem. He needs the support. Would anybody refuse to quit broccoli if it meant saving a loved ones life? Nope. Easy choice. You would be surprised at how many refuse to give up something that will help save a spouse life or a child's life. If she scoffs that doesn't mean he has to fail. But he really can't be around it and expect to make it in the early goings.

Quitting the drug of choice but hanging on to one that is not the problem more often than not will eventually trip the recovering person. Eventually they go back to their drug of choice.

Working with sponsor to see what his triggers are before they happen is helpful. HALT = Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. Two or more of those at the same time are very dangerous to relapse.

Meetings are good. He should try to find one where people have some sobriety time and are actually grateful that they are. I would hope his sponsor could help him with that.

Just curious, why do you think he "seems like he will break soon." Can you gently ask him if your observation/concern is legitimate? Ask him if he told his sponsor. Ask him if he would like to talk to you about it? Then say I hope you don't relapse it could kill you and I would miss you very much.

[Sour Masher]

My advice is call people (no matter what before they use). Sponsor should be the first call as they know what the addict is going through. To some it would seem strange if I made the statement, I caught my shirt on the door and ripped off a button, I want snort coke. To normies (non addicts) that sounds insane. To me that seems about normal and we have to deal with it. That is where the Sponsor comes in.

The 12 steps work. Commit to working through them with your sponsor. This is not a homework assignment. It is the steps to freedom. No excuses work the steps. If they are not willing they are not ready to get sober/clean. Even if your friend thinks he doesn't want to be sober and starts to work the steps, that would be a very good sign that he may really down deep want to quit.

His wife should quit doing drugs and drinking all together for the love of him. If she doesn't have a problem the choice should be easy (after some thought). If she says I don't have a problem and shouldn't have to quit because he has the problem. He needs the support. Would anybody refuse to quit broccoli if it meant saving a loved ones life? Nope. Easy choice. You would be surprised at how many refuse to give up something that will help save a spouse life or a child's life. If she scoffs that doesn't mean he has to fail. But he really can't be around it and expect to make it in the early goings.

Quitting the drug of choice but hanging on to one that is not the problem more often than not will eventually trip the recovering person. Eventually they go back to their drug of choice.

Working with sponsor to see what his triggers are before they happen is helpful. HALT = Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. Two or more of those at the same time are very dangerous to relapse.

Meetings are good. He should try to find one where people have some sobriety time and are actually grateful that they are. I would hope his sponsor could help him with that.

Just curious, why do you think he "seems like he will break soon." Can you gently ask him if your observation/concern is legitimate? Ask him if he told his sponsor. Ask him if he would like to talk to you about it? Then say I hope you don't relapse it could kill you and I would miss you very much.

Thanks Gregg. I talked to him today, because he asked me to send him back the league dues he paid early, and I did. I asked him why and he said he blew nearly 3k on coke this two months, so my suspicions were right, I guess. His wife went from giving him an ultimatum to right back doing it with him, so clearly they both have a problem, and it seems the rollercoaster has a ways to go before they get off (and to your point, he tried to replace coke with drinking more, and that has clearly not worked). He has gone to meetings, but locally, they seem tough to find. He has been going to one for meth that is close by. That is a different drug that he has not done, but I'd guess he gets something similar out of it. They have 3 kids, which makes the whole thing tougher. I know he loves his kids, but their benders have cost them. His two are with his ex every other week, which makes it easier to do this and hide it from them.

It is tough seeing him mess up his body and bank account doing this, and I know my attitude when he tells me he has relapsed has gone from supportive to more tough love, and that is probably not helping. He cannot fully buy into 12 steps, because he is pretty aggressively against acknowledging a higher power, and that is part of the buy in, but he has fully embraced the label of addict, almost too eagerly in my view, and has begun using it, to me, as an excuse for lapsing. My attitude with him lately has changed, just getting annoyed by how often he lapses (he seems to do it just as often if not more than ever) and how much he complains about what it is costing him in money and relationships has morphed from a feeling of sympathy to pity, as in I have begun to see him as pathetic.

I know this is wrong for me to think, but it just seems weak to not be able to refrain from something you know you shouldn't do and say you want to stop. I understand the impulse. Addiction runs in my family, and maybe I have some baggage there that colors my growing annoyance at his inability to fight this thing. I have seen some that cannot and some that do, and I gained great respect for the ones that won their fight and grew to not respect that ones that could not. For me, it is about control. Seeing someone continually fail at having self-control and say when he does, well, I'm an addict, it is a disease, it is not my fault....it makes me see him as weak. If you refuse to accept there is a power bigger than you that can help you, that comes with a need to find within yourself the control to stop, but he refuses to accept the former and has not found the latter, and more often than not seems to seek absolution after the fact that help before he lapses.

It isn't even so much that he falls off the wagon, but that he never seems to actually get on, really. It does not seem to me he is trying all that hard yet, just going to a meeting here and there and not wanting to travel a little farther to go to a coke focused meeting (I don't even know if that would matter) and maybe I just don't understand the struggle, or maybe he has not hit bottom yet and will try harder once he does. IDK. I thought he went 6 weeks, which would have been a record for him, but he really went about two weeks, and his attitude is, well, at least I went two weeks. Hard for me to muster a hardy "good for you" for that. I went the other way tonight and told him he could have helped feed a dozen families in need with the 3k is snorted over this recent stretch. He said he knows. He wants to stop, but is an addict. That is the first step, but he has been stuck at it a long time now. I guess things will have to get worse for him before he can move on to the next step. I hope he can before it gets too bad. He has already cashed in his 401k and spent it all. Even if he stopped today, it will take decades to build that back up.

[Gregg]

Thanks Gregg. I talked to him today, because he asked me to send him back the league dues he paid early, and I did. I asked him why and he said he blew nearly 3k on coke this two months, so my suspicions were right, I guess. His wife went from giving him an ultimatum to right back doing it with him, so clearly they both have a problem, and it seems the rollercoaster has a ways to go before they get off (and to your point, he tried to replace coke with drinking more, and that has clearly not worked). He has gone to meetings, but locally, they seem tough to find. He has been going to one for meth that is close by. That is a different drug that he has not done, but I'd guess he gets something similar out of it. They have 3 kids, which makes the whole thing tougher. I know he loves his kids, but their benders have cost them. His two are with his ex every other week, which makes it easier to do this and hide it from them.

It is tough seeing him mess up his body and bank account doing this, and I know my attitude when he tells me he has relapsed has gone from supportive to more tough love, and that is probably not helping. He cannot fully buy into 12 steps, because he is pretty aggressively against acknowledging a higher power, and that is part of the buy in, but he has fully embraced the label of addict, almost too eagerly in my view, and has begun using it, to me, as an excuse for lapsing. My attitude with him lately has changed, just getting annoyed by how often he lapses (he seems to do it just as often if not more than ever) and how much he complains about what it is costing him in money and relationships has morphed from a feeling of sympathy to pity, as in I have begun to see him as pathetic.

I know this is wrong for me to think, but it just seems weak to not be able to refrain from something you know you shouldn't do and say you want to stop. I understand the impulse. Addiction runs in my family, and maybe I have some baggage there that colors my growing annoyance at his inability to fight this thing. I have seen some that cannot and some that do, and I gained great respect for the ones that won their fight and grew to not respect that ones that could not. For me, it is about control. Seeing someone continually fail at having self-control and say when he does, well, I'm an addict, it is a disease, it is not my fault....it makes me see him as weak. If you refuse to accept there is a power bigger than you that can help you, that comes with a need to find within yourself the control to stop, but he refuses to accept the former and has not found the latter, and more often than not seems to seek absolution after the fact that help before he lapses.

It isn't even so much that he falls off the wagon, but that he never seems to actually get on, really. It does not seem to me he is trying all that hard yet, just going to a meeting here and there and not wanting to travel a little farther to go to a coke focused meeting (I don't even know if that would matter) and maybe I just don't understand the struggle, or maybe he has not hit bottom yet and will try harder once he does. IDK. I thought he went 6 weeks, which would have been a record for him, but he really went about two weeks, and his attitude is, well, at least I went two weeks. Hard for me to muster a hardy "good for you" for that. I went the other way tonight and told him he could have helped feed a dozen families in need with the 3k is snorted over this recent stretch. He said he knows. He wants to stop, but is an addict. That is the first step, but he has been stuck at it a long time now. I guess things will have to get worse for him before he can move on to the next step. I hope he can before it gets too bad. He has already cashed in his 401k and spent it all. Even if he stopped today, it will take decades to build that back up.

First thank you for your transparency and sharing your thoughts and emotions. A lot of wisdom, thought, and emotions in your journey and post.

The whole experience that you presented is very common not only for the addicts, but also those associated with them.

One of the hard things for addicts to wrap their heads around, is that they have to give up the concept of getting high. While we have personal preferences on how we get there, it is not about the actual substance. It is about all substances. I had a preference for things that sped me up and gave me energy. I didn't care for things that brought me down or numbed me out. So speed, coke, crystal meth, were much more attractive to me than Quaaludes, Oxycontin, etc. That does not mean I didn't do those if the drugs of choice were not available. It is why changing substances does not work.

There is a freedom that comes to the addict once it is out in the open. It is both friend and foe to the recovery process. There are a lot of lies that addicts tell themselves.

The real freedom is to be chemically free.

This is what I would tell him in a kind and gentle voice:

Regarding "not my fault I am sick" That is a lie. Many people recover. If you do not (armed with the knowledge you are an addict) it is your fault. It is not too hard. If I can do it anyone can do it. You say you want it. How bad? What are you willing to do to get it. Will you work as hard for your sobriety as you work to get your drugs? If that answer is yes, you have a chance. If that answer is no, sadly your bottom may be much worse than it is now.

Oh and about that higher power thing you have one his name is Cocaine.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Here's where I'd normally chime in with some counseling stuff, but I'll just say--it's much harder than just making a simple choice. There's physiological issues to overcome and they're HARD. The higher power doesn't have to be God/Deity--it can come in any inspirational form--Mine was Parenthood. And yes even though we might try and fail to help a friend or loved one does not mean we shouldn't have tried or should never try again. Yes it's disappointing, frustrating--it pisses you off and makes you sad. But you're doing the right thing, trying to help is never a bad thing. If your pal had responded you'd have a great redemption story. Like Greg said, maybe he hasn't hit bottom and the fact his wife is using as well makes it much more difficult for you to get through. The fact he has money to still indulge also means--he's not at his bottom. n I have helped two close friends, one I even brought into my home when he was on the street--which helped for a bit, but after a few years he returned to his use and was back on the streets Another I spent a year helping almost daily to no avail. Both are in halfway houses now, but still suffer from the disease. If I can I'll help another if I'm called to because who knows--maybe next time I'll be more successful and even though the over all goal failed--I did make a small, if though momentary difference in their lives. Which to me, is worth it.

It's a personal choice SM. It's not an easy one--I wish you the best. If you need more input feel free to PM me anytime. you too Greg. You negative nellie.

[Sour Masher]

There is a freedom that comes to the addict once it is out in the open. It is both friend and foe to the recovery process. There are a lot of lies that addicts tell themselves.

Thanks for your candid feedback, Gregg. To the point you have made above, he has shared his addiction with certain people, but not everyone. His mother still thinks he is a perfect boy. He never tells her of any of his faults. I know her well. My own mother wasn't much of one, and his mother was a surrogate for me in my teens. I have been tempted, at times, to out him to her, but I know it would only hurt all involved. His circle of support in incomplete, because of his hiding this, though. He and and his wife able to go on benders, because his mom watches their kids, and they lie and say they are just going away together for alone time.

[Bene Futuis]

Senate Democrats unveiling a plan to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Senate Democrats unveiling a plan to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level.

Bout Fn time

[Sour Masher]

Bout Fn time

I'd be shocked if Biden signs off on it. He is pretty anti-pot, sadly. In fact, I have no idea why they are moving forward with this given Biden's public and explicit opposition.

ETA: My bad, I misread. He may support decriminalization, which this seems to be. He won't support legalization.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'd be shocked if Biden signs off on it. He is pretty anti-pot, sadly. In fact, I have no idea why they are moving forward with this given Biden's public and explicit opposition.

ETA: My bad, I misread. He may support decriminalization, which this seems to be. He won't support legalization.

Good thing he won't be in office after 2022...

[chancellor]

Senate Democrats unveiling a plan to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level.

Agree with GITH - this is looooooooong overdue. And if they keep it a "clean" bill - only decriminalization and no other big amendments/riders - I believe they'll get enough support to get 60 votes in the Senate, too.

If this passes, do you think that eliminates the possible 14th Amendment conflict with state legalization?