Former Guy Donald Trump

[madducks]

11 sets of documents that were rated "Confidential" to as high as "Top Secret/SCI" were hauled away.

Good thing TFG signed a law in 2018, in retaliation to HRC, stating that the mishandling of confidential documents was now a felony with 5 years of prison time!

Trump is keeping the Democrats dream alive.

[revo]

Former Guy is being investigated for crimes under the Espionage Act, and guess what, he says "word is, Obama had classified docs too."

Reading some posts by former military intel and CIA officers, all saying that if they were caught with Top Secret - SCI docs off-site, like TFG had laying around Mar-a-Lago so anyone could check them out if they desired, their careers would be over and they would be imprisoned. And here we have clown boy squealing that "word is" others did it too.


And because of this, armed Former Guy following dopes have camped outside the Phoenix FBI office and of course attacked the Cincinnati FBI office. Former Guy following dopes in Congress have stated to "Defund the FBI" and Former Guy following dope Rand Paul even went so far as to say the "Espionage Act should be overturned."

This is today's Republican party -- pro-Russia, pro-crime, anti-Back the Blue, anti-facts, anti-science. All because of one guy. Let's all hope one day they wake up from this 6+ year fog they've been in and return to normalcy.

[revo]

Great summary of what the importance is of highly classified documents, particularly in regards to SIGINT, from a retired military intelligence officer:

https://www.stonekettle.com/2022/08/loose-lips-sink-ships.html

[GwynnInTheHall]

This is today's Republican party -- pro-Russia, pro-crime, anti-Back the Blue, anti-facts, anti-science. All because of one guy. Let's all hope one day they wake up from this 6+ year fog they've been in and return to normalcy.

Some might--possibly, but there are others, quite a few actually who LIKE being mindless thugs. I'm sure there were soldiers/people in WW2 who actually LIKED being Nazis, the killing, the torture et al--there are those in this country who LIKE following a fascist like Trump. They will go on existing long after Trump is in jail/dead or living in Russia.

I've said it many times, but I'll say it again--This shit will become more commonplace and we'll become more numb to the horror of it all. The opportunity to cure the disease may no longer exist, all we can do is treat the symptoms.

I hope I'm absolutely wrong about this, but I just can see progress or change being made even if those who's policies I agree with control every aspect of Govt.

It's really discouraging.

[Steve 2.0]

Some might--possibly, but there are others, quite a few actually who LIKE being mindless thugs. I'm sure there were soldiers/people in WW2 who actually LIKED being Nazis, the killing, the torture et al--there are those in this country who LIKE following a fascist like Trump. They will go on existing long after Trump is in jail/dead or living in Russia.

I've said it many times, but I'll say it again--This shit will become more commonplace and we'll become more numb to the horror of it all. The opportunity to cure the disease may no longer exist, all we can do is treat the symptoms.

I hope I'm absolutely wrong about this, but I just can see progress or change being made even if those who's policies I agree with control every aspect of Govt.

It's really discouraging.

I told the wife just the other day that is entirely possible that we will see the end of the United States in our lifetime. Either via some kind of stupid civil war that Donald Trump basically set the match to or via climate change.

[revo]

Honestly, what the heck is going on here? What the heck is he doing? Why on earth would he have his incompetent lawyers claim, under oath, that all Top Secret material was returned when it wasn't -- and the DOJ knew it? Remember, in 2018 USAF intel specialist Reality Winner was sentenced to 5+ years for mishandling ONE top secret document, and this clown had OVER 100, lied to the DOJ about returning them and tried to cover everything up.

It boggles my mind how many crimes this clown has committed since 2017. Yeah, I know -- but, but Hunter Biden! But, but her emails! And it boggles my mind that this traitorous clown is the best the GOP can do. He shouldn't even be allowed in the White House as a tourist.

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department sought a search warrant for former President Donald J. Trump’s residence in Florida after obtaining evidence that highly classified documents were likely concealed and that Mr. Trump’s representatives had falsely claimed all sensitive material had been returned, according to a court filing by the department on Tuesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/us/politics/trump-mar-a-lago-documents.html

[chancellor]

His lawyers may well be incompetent - as I noted previously, his first slate of lawyers involved in challenging elections totally beclowned themselves - but in this case, I think I see the angle they're trying to play. I'm pretty sure they'll claim they were declassified under Dept. of Navy vs. Egan, and hence, are not top secret anymore.

Here's the PoitiFact link: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...y-anything-an/

[Ken]

It doesn't even matter if it was still classified as top secret. There were national defense documents, the espionage act makes it a crime to retain any government records pertaining to the US's national defense

[revo]

His lawyers may well be incompetent - as I noted previously, his first slate of lawyers involved in challenging elections totally beclowned themselves - but in this case, I think I see the angle they're trying to play. I'm pretty sure they'll claim they were declassified under Dept. of Navy vs. Egan, and hence, are not top secret anymore.

Here's the PoitiFact link: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...y-anything-an/

But doesn't he actually need to still be president to do that?

Also, if these documents were indeed "declassified," then they should be readily available under the Freedom of Information Act to anyone who requests it. Nice, a guy selling out American secrets just to save his own neck.

[chancellor]

It doesn't even matter if it was still classified as top secret. There were national defense documents, the espionage act makes it a crime to retain any government records pertaining to the US's national defense

Actually, the Espionage Act was fairly broad, but it has two key qualifications - not that all that all/any government records pertaining to the US national defense being retained is a criminal act. First, the documents must be "closely held" and a number of judicial rulings link the Espionage Act's "closely held" clause to classification level. And the documents that are "closely held" must also be "potentially damaging to the United States". It's pretty clear that his lawyers are going to link the rulings on classification equating to "closely held", thereby nullifying the Espionage Act angle.

[chancellor]

But doesn't he actually need to still be president to do that?

Also, if these documents were indeed "declassified," then they should be readily available under the Freedom of Information Act to anyone who requests it. Nice, a guy selling out American secrets just to save his own neck.

I'm sure he'll claim he did so as President; in fact, I believe the claim is the documents were automatically declassified if he took them to his Florida residence.

The only possible legal out I can find is an Executive Order that was issued in 2009 that outlines declassification requirements and does not appear to be revoked, though that's being debated. Right now, I believe that's the only way they get him. Otherwise, Dept of Navy vs. Egan is pretty clear that the President has absolute authority over declassification/classification.

[Ken]

Actually, the Espionage Act was fairly broad, but it has two key qualifications - not that all that all/any government records pertaining to the US national defense being retained is a criminal act.

Actually no, what I originally said was correct, I don't need random internet interpretations it's in the written law.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

"(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it"



It's amazing that the party of law and order thinks their golden idol can just hand wave all culpability away. The law doesn't work like that, as much as they want it to.

[revo]

I'm sure he'll claim he did so as President; in fact, I believe the claim is the documents were automatically declassified if he took them to his Florida residence.

The only possible legal out I can find is an Executive Order that was issued in 2009 that outlines declassification requirements and does not appear to be revoked, though that's being debated. Right now, I believe that's the only way they get him. Otherwise, Dept of Navy vs. Egan is pretty clear that the President has absolute authority over declassification/classification.

I don’t believe this applies to nuclear secrets. They have their own legal codes. We don’t know if that’s what they were, but if they were, I don’t believe it applies.

BTW, the bozo keeps blabbing on his social media app things that don’t jive with either what he or his reps said before. Today, it was that he was hiding it in a box, and not “out in the open” like in the FBI photo. So again, this contradicts that it was a) planted by the FBI, which he claimed last week; and b) he was indeed “hiding” the documents.

[chancellor]

Actually no, what I originally said was correct, I don't need random internet interpretations it's in the written law.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

"(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it".

Both paragraphs d and e have been clearly interpreted by the courts to involve two linked issues - being closely held, and being damaging to the United States. Should you so doubt it, I'll refer you to Heidi Kitrosser's work, which shows on multiple blogs, most notably the Lawfare blog, which most assuredly is no pro-Trump blog.

To further detail this is no slam dunk legal case, I'll quote from Bloomberg's law news service (again, certainly no pro-Trump service):

A team led by Justice officials is examining records to determine whether criminal laws were broken and if charges should be brought, the officials said.

[chancellor]

I don’t believe this applies to nuclear secrets. They have their own legal codes. We don’t know if that’s what they were, but if they were, I don’t believe it applies.

Right now, that's confirmed in the legal circles I'm reading. And, mind you, I'm not saying Trump's legal team won't totally hose this up, either. The bozo was certainly strong in them during the election challenges.