Covid Vaccine thread

[nullnor]

the list of things ppl propose as treatment for covid is daunting. it's almost like everything could work, which makes you think we're missing everything and anything in diets. you need in vivo study. i see some remedies mentioned more than once. 3cl protease inhibitors seem the most promising. and it makes sense. they already work on the cleavage site on HIV.

i think black tea would be worth examining. that's the lowest hanging fruit.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2020.588508/full

Current Prevention of COVID-19: Natural Products and Herbal Medicine

Chymotrypsin-like protease (3CLPro) of SARS-CoV, an enzyme responsible for proteolysis, is vital to coronavirus replication, making it considered as an important target for drug discovery against SARS-CoV. Chen et al. (Doremalen et al., 2020) have screened a library with 720 compounds of natural product for inhibitory effect against 3CLPro of SARS-CoV by high-performance liquid chromatography assay and fluorogenic substrate peptide assay. Among them, two natural polyphenols found in black tea (Camellia sinensis (L.) Kuntze), tannic acid, IC50: 3 µM; theaflavin-3-gallate, IC50: 7 µM) showed desired benefits. Black tea is common all over the world, thus this study provides a new perspective that tea-derived supplements might prevent the infection of SARS-CoV. But detailed in vitro and in vivo studies need to be conducted

[heyelander]

The microchip needed to go in deeper.

He is getting to the age that we should be keeping better track of him... he's going to start wandering off sooner than later.

[Teenwolf]

they gave Biden his booster shot wrong. you are supposed to inject the vaccine in muscle. so you are supposed to slightly pull back and see if there is any blood. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab707/6353927 Intravenous Injection of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) mRNA Vaccine Can Induce Acute Myopericarditis my own hypothesis of why males would be having an adverse affect more than females is because females have more fat in their skin.

Nully, thanks for speaking your piece.

You do realize that the chances of developing myocardial from having Covid is exponentially higher than the risk from the vaccine, right? I heard it's roughly 10% of Covid patients develop myocarditis, while it's a tiny fraction of 1% getting it from the vaccines.

That's how Red Sox pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez developed it, since exercise worsens the condition.

Same with this Edmonton Oilers anti-vaxxer, Josh Archibald.

Thinking you can do better research reading things online than the global health authorities' efforts seems foolish. You missed a hugely important set of data while convincing yourself the data that fit your narrative was the correct set of data.

[nullnor]

Nully, thanks for speaking your piece.

You do realize that the chances of developing myocardial from having Covid is exponentially higher than the risk from the vaccine, right? I heard it's roughly 10% of Covid patients develop myocarditis, while it's a tiny fraction of 1% getting it from the vaccines.

That's how Red Sox pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez developed it, since exercise worsens the condition.

Same with this Edmonton Oilers anti-vaxxer, Josh Archibald.

Thinking you can do better research reading things online than the global health authorities' efforts seems foolish. You missed a hugely important set of data while convincing yourself the data that fit your narrative was the correct set of data.

no, i knew that. obviously. i was thinking of mentioning what you said but i didn't want to talk too much. for example if you ask me how often has the blood clot problem been documented in the US, i would say they say 15 times. i still wonder if they are even giving ppl hospitalized with covid blood thinners. they should be. the difference is global health authorities have a vested interest in their version. i don't. they are in denial, they are overwhelmed. the things they are defending they have believed their entire life. they can't afford to admit when they are wrong. in contrast, i do dumb things all the time. and i am not afraid to admit it.

what would be helpful would be explaining to me why they are sure they aren't hitting a vein when they give the jab. we have reports of the vaccine not staying in the muscle like it should. perhaps it's possible by enlisting so many people to give jabs that inadvertent intravenous injection is happening is this is the cause of the heart inflammation in the rare cases of vaccination. so in essence i am defending the vaccine and citing human error. or perhaps when given in the shoulder there is no chance of hitting a vein. i don't know.

i read everything man. i even knew about that hockey player. i think it's an overstatement to say his career is over. your heart can heal from inflammation, stress, enlargement from high blood pressure. i learned this from my cat. and lot's of echocardiograms. a heart can't hold as much blood when it is stressed out. but once the underlying cause is treated after a year or two, depending on the severity, it heals. might not be the same as before. but it resolves. it can't recover from scarring from a heart attack.

[nullnor]

this isn't one of those instances when i think i know everything because i read some thing on the internet. i know plenty of people in RL like that. the RV guy was like that, he thought he knew everything, and that's not even a problem if such a person knew how to train themselves to look things up. what it really comes down to is overconfidence. ppl that are overconfident are the least competent, while ppl that are the most competent are hesitant, because they know what they don't know.

i also attribute it to our species just wanting to share information. our cooperative nature. our programming causes us to have a need to share what we learn or think we know. so when ppl do that, but they truly believe what they say, i can't fault their intentions. but i can fault health authorities that are fucking this up for different reasons when they know better.

[nullnor]

this leads us to the case of Uttar Pradesh. https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other...ow/ar-BB1gDp5U Uttar Pradesh government says early use of Ivermectin helped to keep positivity, deaths low

Claiming that timely introduction of Ivermectin since the first wave has helped the state maintain a relatively low positivity rate despite its high population density, he said, “Despite being the state with the largest population base and a high population density, we have maintained a relatively low positivity rate and cases per million of population”.

notice it's MSN, we would've banned this previously. apparently WHO went in there with 'secret' medical kits, lol. the only souce i heard was it was only 100,000 kits. that could be wrong because Uttar Pradesh has 200 million ppl. the story seems solid but i am also concerned that a number i saw was their mortality rate was only lowered to 2% while the country was something like 2.6%. but we are still talking about very large numbers of ppl. in the kit was ivermectin. but this news contrasts with Brazil, where their government gave out kits and they say it didn't do shit.

[nullnor]

or maybe it was the result of the curve inevitably having to go down. i don't trust any of the information anywhere. and that upsets me. it's more fun being trusting.

i had a weird thought tonight. what if the vaccines do actually make the virus worse. it's not a vaccine, it's gene therapy. it doesn't totally prevent you from getting infected. this tells me that we will never eradicate covid. but if vaccinated ppl, and previously infected, get infected again, it's giving the virus opportunities to get around immunity. worst case scenario, we are playing a game of chicken with evolution. we don't know how this is going to go. it's random. it seems to me that it's ok to fuck around with your antibodies with a vaccine that works. it's another thing to have to keep calling them into action in different ways for a virus with a history of antibody dependent enhancement. or maybe vaccines are the answer, i'd feel more comfortable if we could stop transmission.

a what if scenario, the vaccine teaches your immune system to fight the S protein. the virus mutates, the vaccines are changed, but your immune system also fights the virus the old way and blocks the virus the wrong way and causes ADE. the virus has evolved to go around the old method or even use it to it's advantage. we really don't have any other choice, the vaccinations should lower viral load and lower transmission. but this could also backfire on us.

i wish i knew more about the dengue fever vaccine in the Philippines. the vaccine is only recommended in those who have previously had dengue fever. is it the same vaccine or a newer better one. i know there are two very different types of strains of dengue and when they vaccinated against one, the other strain had ADE upon infection. so why would it only work if you were previously infected with one of the types of dengue.

i don't know. i think we should've also focused on treatment. whether something new (which is happening now), or repurposed drugs, or even TCM or herbal. but instead we shunned it, and put all our eggs in one basket.

black tea, famotidine, vitamin d, c, b12 and that fish oil shit. and zinc i guess whatever that is.

but you know, vaccination is fine. especially if you can lower transmission. but we'll never eradicate it. and if the vaccine can't lower transmission and it only prevents hospitalization, eventually the virus is going to go around our defense wall and be worse. which makes the idea of mandating a vaccine every 6 months not only dangerous but illogical. but it would be good to allow parents to let their kids get vaccinated if they have underlying conditions if they want to. make exceptions for kids 10,11,12 etc..

[Teenwolf]

The vaccine prevents death, much better than any combination of treatments. 99%+ of 2021 deaths are unvaccinated. End of story.

Everything else you have to say just looks completely pointless within that context. I value my life, and I trust the evidence of a mountain of DEAD unvaxxed people who thought they could out-research Covid, and billions of vaccines delivered with no major health risks. Call me crazy, but that's all the evidence I need.

I hope you reach this conclusion soon. I don't want you joining the ivermectin lemmings, or worse.

[nullnor]

The vaccine prevents death, much better than any combination of treatments. 99%+ of 2021 deaths are unvaccinated. End of story.

Everything else you have to say just looks completely pointless within that context. I value my life, and I trust the evidence of a mountain of DEAD unvaxxed people who thought they could out-research Covid, and billions of vaccines delivered with no major health risks. Call me crazy, but that's all the evidence I need.

I hope you reach this conclusion soon. I don't want you joining the ivermectin lemmings, or worse.

i see what you are saying now. yes it's true the risk of heart inflammation is much smaller in vaccination than covid. i thought that was implied. what i am saying is you are supposed to inject in muscle and the best way to prevent this is by aspiration of the needle. but the CDC gave guidance and said you didn't need to. they actively went against the recommendations of the vaccine companies that said deliver in muscle. and i say every case of heart inflammation and people dying of blood clots is because if you accidentally inject it in a vein, the vaccine irritates the lining of the vessel and causes cells to die which then accumulate in the heart and causes inflammation. why did they say not to aspirate, that's a good question. it's not science. it's politics. they didn't want ppl to have to get jabbed twice and vaccines have bad publicity which would be detrimental to the program.

pointing out these things isn't really worth it for me. one drug company had a cheap safe drug that they refused to do clinical trials on. outside countries are starting to use it and they say there is some efficacy. the same company is coming out with a new drug, and it is a big thing, there are barely any anti-viral drugs approved by the FDA for anything. that new drug costs $700 while the old one costs 10. or by pill one costs .53 and the other $70. we could've been using the cheaper one the whole time in addition to vaccines. or at least tried to do a clinical trial. it didn't even get that far.

only time will sort it out. also, i am well aware during pandemics, the professionals trying to help get blamed. and i am weary of acting like that. but i think there is some evidence here to examine. but i have no interest in continuing talking about it. i get nothing out of it.

[madducks]

only time will sort it out.

Time is the world's #1 cause of death.

[Ken]

what i am saying is you are supposed to inject in muscle and the best way to prevent this is by aspiration of the needle. but the CDC gave guidance and said you didn't need to. they actively went against the recommendations of the vaccine companies that said deliver in muscle.

I'm not sure that's correct. Can you cite your sources for that data?

Here's an article that concludes that "There is ample evidence that suggests that aspiration may not be required for IM and SC injections" (IM being intra-muscular)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5333604/

[nullnor]

I'm not sure that's correct. Can you cite your sources for that data?

Here's an article that concludes that "There is ample evidence that suggests that aspiration may not be required for IM and SC injections" (IM being intra-muscular)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5333604/

i don't know but from that paper it sounds like a heated debate. perhaps it's a controversy of expediency vs safety. my source was the paper i linked above https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab707/6353927 which showed intravenous injection of the mrna vaccines lead to myopericarditis in mice in an in vivo study. thus i extrapolated with so many ppl being vaccinated there will be patients that inadvertently get it in the bloodstream. and since there has been no explanation offered yet about why, in rare instances, some people develop myopericarditis, the scientific evidence (blood vessel wall disruption, dead cells accumulating in heart, inflammation ) points to accidental intravenous injection.

i didn't know there was a controversy about aspiration though. at the least it sort of absolves the CDC when they issued the guidance. and even if it were true, it's not like they can go back and change it. i didn't even think about disposable needles.

[nullnor]

Time is the world's #1 cause of death.

yeah, i do hope that this stuff get's sorted out though. OTOH if it's true, all these conspiracy theories, would i really want to know. it would be depressing. have our institutions been captured. was there an effective and safe alternative drug. is healthcare compromised because it's on autopilot. is there some global effort to suppress scientific debate in a public forum. is the government in charge of whether i am going to be allowed to an education, employment. when the next virus escapes a lab and causes a pandemic will they arrest me and put me in jail for not being vaccinated or for spreading misinformation on youtube.

one time they came to my house and made me goto the hospital because i got bitten by a raccoon on the ankle. and when i wondered if i had rabies, i was making out with my GF and wasn't sure if i might give her rabies from kissing.

[nullnor]

i guess i lied and i did want to keep talking about this subject. it's a red pill. i think we are too old to be busted out of the matrix. it's not fun stuff though. the more i read the more i am being convinced, there's something rotten going on here. i try to stay away from social media for answers. also, for the record, i am not against the vaccines. not really. i live in an RV in the woods and never go anywhere. i don't even have running water and use rain water i catch in buckets. so i could afford to wait.

tonight i learned the Indian Bar Association has sued the WHO for trying to suppress the use of ivermectin in India. interesting story. it started when the WHO official used an old notice from Merck about using it, which pissed the lawyer off. and she has a point, why use a generic notice from a drug company.

i also watched some videos about ivermectin. before i went this route i tried to explain it better with published papers. i thought finding the mechanism for anti-viral activity (3cl protease) was astute. that lead to a wealth of good stuff. remdesivir is a 3cl protease, the new Pfizer drug is, the HIV drugs are (similar cleavage) and with the exception of Merck's new drug (which in theory could have a scary safety profile) i would expect most covid antivirals to be 3cl protease. anyways, but of course in silica or in vitro studies rarely extrapolate into the real world. you could even see ADE in vitro, and it still wouldn't mean shit. and even in vivo studies on mice, can be notoriously bad in replicating the same experiment in humans.

but it is true, if the allegations that a cheap drug with an extremely safe record (dosage is based on body weight btw, so it's easy to fuck up sort of) was suppressed for nefarious reasons, that we could've been using to lower transmission and as a bridge until the vaccines came out, that's a crime against humanity. is it really so hard to believe. i totally expected, at the time, of Trumps stunt with hydroxychloroquine (which doesn't work) they would find a drug to repurpose. that was the cat out of the bag moment.

ivermectin is an amazing drug. it has anti-viral effects against Nipah, Zika, etc.. and health authorities are really going out of their way to slander it. but think about this, the expensive drugs and even the vaccines, are not available to a large percentage of the ppl of the world. which exacerbates the allegations. this is something you'd have to look into for yourselves. i am not going to try one way or the other. it looks to me like the mother of all conspiracies. i don't think i recommend it, it's depressing. and i don't have the time.

i did like this video of a double blind study with 100 ppl by an Israeli doctor. there's really tons of what seem to be credible videos out there. but don't look because it's unpopular, or your mind is made up. or disagrees with ones politics. find out for yourself and make up your own mind. a lot of them helped me be more pro-vaccine.

Prof Eli Schwartz IVERMECTIN Israel RCT study

i am going to watch this one next https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqNH6GVAATY
ICON Study: Use of Ivermectin in Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 | January 2021 Journal Club

i recommend videos from Dr. John Campbell, some older UK guy.

it's funny watching the knowledgeable old timers getting involved in this. if you think about it. they finally learn how to upload a video to youtube for the first time and then get banned, lol. and then they are like oh, it's fucking on now. heh

[Ken]

i don't know but from that paper it sounds like a heated debate. perhaps it's a controversy of expediency vs safety. my source was the paper i linked above https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab707/6353927 which showed intravenous injection of the mrna vaccines lead to myopericarditis in mice in an in vivo study. thus i extrapolated with so many ppl being vaccinated there will be patients that inadvertently get it in the bloodstream. and since there has been no explanation offered yet about why, in rare instances, some people develop myopericarditis, the scientific evidence (blood vessel wall disruption, dead cells accumulating in heart, inflammation ) points to accidental intravenous injection.

Got it - I'd be interested if there was something in a medical journal describing this, extrapolating isn't really what I was interested in - it feels naive to think that there's an obvious reason that a layman would identify but the medial community has not found it. Possible, but extremely unlikely.