Covid Vaccine thread

[nullnor]

do you think the biggest problem is censorship and not science? as I illustrated you have to let people what ancient aliens because it's a teachable moment anyways. you have to make lemonade. if facebook and twitter goes around indiscriminately censoring the debate, people dig their heels in even more and it gets worse. it's a shit pie. but with any pie you have to have a good and bad part. or you'd have no pie. Biden doubling down on the facebook censorship thing is a bad idea.

granted I may not realize how bad it is. misinformation

but that was the original problem with anti-vaxxers. the government just told them to stfu. but if they had taken the moment to engage them in science. address every concern they had. point out shit like Sir Isaac Newton had autism maybe. it's been around for history. and it's both a genetic disposition and also can be triggered environmentally. use it as a teachable moment.

[nullnor]

if I was going door to door to get people vaccinated I would call myself, doctors with doorbells. and the first thing I would say is, but if this works, it will be the greatest advance in medical science in the history of mankind. and point out you don't want to miss out.

I also worry about when a new lawnmower tractor comes in the yard, and the cats sit on it, and it's the time they learn to shift it into start and take over the world.

[nullnor]

the great thing about being drunk and wooden for hours outside is you get to see all the invading cats and stuff come in the yard. so far we only have one young skinny black cat. and I also saw him a month ago. so he's a player. the great thing about my girls is they are totally badass. the two of them pretty much run this neighborhood. so as the Godfather, I gave them the ok to let that cat eat some food.

other wildlife like possums that do the same thing.. we also ignore for the time being because possums eventually get hit in the road and the problem takes care of itself. yet, I am not really sure about that, and I am also skeptical that I know everything that goes on.

lately the old guy and his friend jose, think there is something going on in the back of the garage. noises, ghosts. I found a electronic voice changer I built in school. I think I might put a speaker in the corner is scare them.

when you find people afraid of ghost.. don't let the opportunity go. you have to scare them.

[Sour Masher]

Just spent an hour on the phone with my mom trying to get her vaccinated. She said her doctor doesn't have it and said she doesn't need it, she doesn't know where to go, blah, blah, blah. I told her I can't bring my young kids to see her when we go down there if she doesn't--they are going to be flying and around lots of people and are too young to be vaccinated. She said she will, but has been saying it for weeks now. She hasn't seen them in two years. I guess time will tell is she sees them this trip.

[nullnor]

I am 52 and admit I should be vaccinated. even if I had the disease already. unless I had covid and it didn't require a lot or any antibodies to clear the infection. then I could hope the same thing might happen again upon infection with a different variant. I don't want to call in the calvary yet (antibodies) until I am sure I need them. I am concerned about ADE (antibody dependent enhancement). if studies could come out tomorrow about it.

but the vaccines are working fine. the old guy here had two shots and he has every health problem you can imagine. and he's doing fine. one of his nurses in her 40's died from covid before the vaccines came out. anyone with health problems especially diabetes or chronic lung obstruction (masons, smokers), need to get vaccinated. anyone 60 or older.

you can definitely make an argument of trying to reach herd immunity, but I just think there are too many natural reservoirs. protect and vaccinate the vulnerable and let the disease run it's course. it should lose virulence and find a new host and completely go away in a few years.

[nullnor]

I thought about the 1891 painting The Doctor

The Doctor is an 1891 painting by Luke Fildes that depicts a Victorian doctor observing the critical stage in a child's illness while the parents gaze on helplessly from the periphery. It has been used to portray the values of the ideal physician and the inadequacies of the medical profession.

[nullnor]

when you really think about it, it's not like you are fixing something mechanical, or economically, a doctor is fixing humans. there can be no greater profession. for sure Shakespeare wrote about that.

[nullnor]

this seems like something to consider

at the end when he says because of the naturally immune and the vaccinated creating different selective pressure on the virus, at the same time, it's creating the chance of a major catastrophe of variants so infectious they will suppress the innate immunity of younger people.

[nullnor]

I don't know maybe I am wrong about all of this, there is certainly some really piss poor conspiracy information out there. the kind of conspiracy shit that makes you angry.

so I was just going through academic papers all night and I came across Tcell stuff and drugs that inhibit interleukin (IL)-17 (which I assume is inflammation). drugs for the treatment of psoriasis, surprisingly there are a lot of IL-17 inhibiting drugs for lots of things. I piggybacked from there and found papers on computer models looking for potential molecules to fight covid. and then I remembered an earlier paper where they said one of the molecules was vitamin B12. Study suggests vitamin B12 as a SARS-CoV-2 antiviral https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...antiviral.aspx

The team used a quantum-inspired device in combination with a more traditional fingerprinting method to search for drugs that are similar to remdesivir, the only antiviral against SARS-CoV-2 that is currently approved for human use.

not that I hear remdesivir is all that great. The Tanimoto model predicted different forms of cobalamin, also known as vitamin B12.

I also might have learned that Tcells use vitamin D as sort of antennae's when mounting a response. which might explain more severe cases of covid in people with a vitamin D deficiency. they say Fauci takes 4000 (that can't be right). way over the recommended dosage.

I also learned that they say to assume most health research is fraudulent lol https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/05...ved-otherwise/

Mol, like Roberts, has conducted systematic reviews only to realise that most of the trials included either were zombie trials that were fatally flawed or were untrustworthy. What, he asked, is the scale of the problem? Although retractions are increasing, only about 0.04% of biomedical studies have been retracted, suggesting the problem is small. But the anaesthetist John Carlisle analysed 526 trials submitted to Anaesthesia and found that 73 (14%) had false data, and 43 (8%) he categorised as zombie.

that's right! supposedly 8% of health studies were zombie trials, uh huh..

[nullnor]

the elephant in the room is whether or not you can still be infected even after you have had covid or been vaccinated. it will be less virulent and symptomatic but still infectious and asymptomatic. if that's true than saying it's ok to not wear a mask after vaccination is inaccurate. the vaccines only lower the virulence and symptoms, they don't prevent them. and never did any of the vaccine companies claim they did, and rightfully so.

[nullnor]

here a few opinions on it Vanden Bossche’s Theory: Mass Vaccination Will Breed Dangerous Variants – Fact or Fiction? https://dryburgh.com/vanden-bossche-...act-or-fiction from what looks like a very antivax site the guy asked 3 researchers Dr Byram Bridle, Viral Immunologist. Dr Knut Wittkowski, Epidemiologist. Dr Mike Yeadon, Former Vice President and Chief Science Officer for Pfizer whether vaccinations have the ability to turn covid into a so-called uncontrollable monster.

my interest is because if it were true, and I lean that it isn't true, and I am one of those people that are naturally immune, then I want to know if other people being vaccinated is going to eventually harm me. so in essence the argument that the unvaccinated but naturally immune is the danger is being turned around and it would be the vaccinated endangering the people with natural immunity (in the meantime, the unvaccinated with no natural immunity are being super spreaders and dying). so there's 3 camps going on here.

[nullnor]

ok so the Vanden Bossche’s Theory looks to be wrong. but that dryburgh site looks pretty good.

you have to admit, when people start combining different vaccines, like if you took a mRNA first, and then people say to take one of the DNA ones as a second dose, no this wasn't done in the phase 2 trials. or lets just give everyone a single dose first than go back with a second one when we can.. that wasn't in the trials for emergency approval. so it appears things are getting a little sloppy. and who knows afterwards after combining different vaccines one of them has a problem and the other doesn't.

also, I didn't even know there was a H1N1 vaccines. I had the H1N1, that thing actually sort of kicked my ass. that was when my cat fell out of a tree and I was visiting her in the ER a lot. when I got home eventually with her i was so taxed i accidentally dropped a can of food on her head and she was like wtf. so one of the H1N1 vaccines actually had narcolepsy issues discovered 2 years after.

i read in the 2nd wave of the 1918 pandemic, i read a decent paper that showed it did have mutations indicating more disease severity. two current influenza viruses have a similar mutation, H5N1 and one of the others. and i assume the Spanish flu disappeared for some reason later. why was the 2nd wave more severe etc.. probably not a hard paper to find again. so that would make Vanden Bossche potentially wrong again, maybe.

technically we're still in phase 3 trials.

[chancellor]

the elephant in the room is whether or not you can still be infected even after you have had covid or been vaccinated. it will be less virulent and symptomatic but still infectious and asymptomatic. if that's true than saying it's ok to not wear a mask after vaccination is inaccurate. the vaccines only lower the virulence and symptoms, they don't prevent them. and never did any of the vaccine companies claim they did, and rightfully so.

Whether you can be infected after being vaccinated - definitely, you can. As you noted, it will be less virulent and severity is less. The lower virulence level also reduces, but does not eliminate, infectiousness.

If you've had COVID and not been vaccinated, studies have shown immune response roughly equal to vaccination. The premise is that re-infection rates are then roughly equal to those who are vaccinated and symptomology will be the same; however, that hasn't been formally tested and I doubt it will.

Per Vitamin D, I don't know a medical professional who isn't supplementing. B12 is trickier due to the allergy risks and some of the other potential side effects.

[revo]

From the "No Duh" department:

“I don’t know. You tell me,” Ivey said. “Folks [are] supposed to have common sense. But it’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/23/alabama-governor-covid-vaccinations-500638?fbclid=IwAR0wO7ww1K56azxVXgpCRRYhzjV8BR6zAtFNQn_Eqj5Zxdd1qbdLuh5KOp8

[rhd]

This CV-19 crisis continues to be mismanaged by everyone. The Tokyo Olympics have just started. They really should have been postponed again, since the world is in the midst of another spike and even before that hadnt yet reached a truly manageable level. But since they decided to go ahead w it, both the IOC and the countries individual OCs, like the USOC, should have absolutely required that all participants be vaccinated or else be barred from attending. Of the 600+ US athletes attending, only 83% are vaccinated. Probably it's a similar figure for most other countries. It's amazing how much people in charge refuse to learn anything from this. We've seen the enemy and they are us.