Cubs! I am very sad at you!

[ThatRogue]

Owners you need to be aware that there is something worse than fans being sad at you. It is when they stop caring.

Strong rumor that the Cubs are going to go hard after Jose Abreu. Seems like the I am very sad at you season is starting early.

Proof: Gregg went 5 months without posting anything in this thread, which means he didn’t even care enough to be sad for the majority of the season.

[The Feral Slasher]

And yet the owners and upper management say they are going to spend big money this year to make the Cubs competitive in 2023.

They seem to have misjudged what it takes to sign top free agents in this economy. Their top three preseason targets were a top shortstop, Abreu, and Senga. So far 0-2 with two SS off the board.

I was disappointed that with all the FA rumors around there has been no noise with Rodon.

Senga was to be their big spend on starting pithing. Now that he is off the boards I am shocked not to hear of any rumors of an interest in Rodon. They are making a mistake by not going after him.

If they think a shortstop, Abreu and Senga make them competitive, they may also have misjudged that. Without taking a deeper look, i would think that just makes them an average or slightly better team, certainly not likely to compete with the more powerful teams in the NL. Expecting the Cubs to spend their way to competition in 2023 seems like a recipe for sadness.

[Gregg]

Proof: Gregg went 5 months without posting anything in this thread, which means he didn’t even care enough to be sad for the majority of the season.

Nice to see you!

[Gregg]

If they think a shortstop, Abreu and Senga make them competitive, they may also have misjudged that. Without taking a deeper look, i would think that just makes them an average or slightly better team, certainly not likely to compete with the more powerful teams in the NL. Expecting the Cubs to spend their way to competition in 2023 seems like a recipe for sadness.

Those were to be the main targets and then spend on some filler and minor upgrades.

Bassitt a reputed Cubs target comes off the board for 3 years 63M. Now Cubs take that money add some and sign Rodon!

[The Feral Slasher]

Well I like the cubs and hope they do well....i just think they are at least a few years from competing and I don't think this off season is critical for them. If they are promoting the idea they will compete in 2023 I think that is a mistake

[Gregg]

Well I like the cubs and hope they do well....i just think they are at least a few years from competing and I don't think this off season is critical for them. If they are promoting the idea they will compete in 2023 I think that is a mistake

Thanks.

I agree ish with you. It is a process. They are in a weak division. They need to show the fan base some good movement.

Twins just signed Vazquez so another Cubs Catcher target off the board. This is shaping up to be a replay of last year. And that sucked.

[ThatRogue]

Nice to see you!

Same…and am enjoying catching up on your Cubs posts! I hope the holidays will afford me some free time to hang out on RJ.

[Gregg]

Thanks.

I agree ish with you. It is a process. They are in a weak division. They need to show the fan base some good movement.

Twins just signed Vazquez so another Cubs Catcher target off the board. This is shaping up to be a replay of last year. And that sucked.

Well they won't have to worry about the top FA's helping them in a rebuild as they are all locked up to long term contracts.

Ownership and top Management announced they had lots of money to spend and planned on being very aggressive in free agency. Once again writers and fans are very very angry on how this off season has played out. Even if they get Dansby it will feel like they didn't do what was promised. And they better get Dansby.

Cubs management WHAT PART OF YOU DIDN'T SELL OUT YOUR HOME OPENER DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!! THERE IS NO REASON TO GO TO THE BALLPARK TO WATCH THE PATHETIC PRODUCT YOU PUT OUT. NOT ONE BONAFIED STAR TO ROOT FOR.

[Ken]

Well they won't have to worry about the top FA's helping them in a rebuild as they are all locked up to long term contracts.

Ownership and top Management announced they had lots of money to spend and planned on being very aggressive in free agency. Once again writers and fans are very very angry on how this off season has played out. Even if they get Dansby it will feel like they didn't do what was promised. And they better get Dansby.

Cubs management WHAT PART OF YOU DIDN'T SELL OUT YOUR HOME OPENER DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!! THERE IS NO REASON TO GO TO THE BALLPARK TO WATCH THE PATHETIC PRODUCT YOU PUT OUT. NOT ONE BONAFIED STAR TO ROOT FOR.

To clarify, in a rebuild as a fan you shouldn't want the team to be blowing out their payroll, I wouldn't think. That would be self destructive.

[Gregg]

To clarify, in a rebuild as a fan you shouldn't want the team to be blowing out their payroll, I wouldn't think. That would be self destructive.

There is a difference in paying the going rate for young stars to form the base on which to rebuild than blowing out the payroll. Part of a rebuild should also be keeping the fans invested in the rebuild. Keep them coming to the park. Paying the money for owners profit and the rebuild.

Heck Ricketts said publicly that he gave green light to spend money. Deep pockets for this year. He knows they have come close to killing the Golden Goose.

Why has Hoyer not spent the money? Is this insubordination or was Ricketts lying?

Hoyer does not know how to rebuild a team. They panicked in the sell off. They did not get enough almost ready talent for their assets. He completely botched the Contreas situation. He totally misread the top free agent market. Now he will have to overpay for second tier parts to try to fool the fan base into believing we are taking steps towards rebuild. Additionally the Cubs after this off season are so far away from being competitive that the best free agents will not want to come here without some massive overpaying.

[Ken]

There is a difference in paying the going rate for young stars to form the base on which to rebuild than blowing out the payroll. Part of a rebuild should also be keeping the fans invested in the rebuild. Keep them coming to the park. Paying the money for owners profit and the rebuild.

Heck Ricketts said publicly that he gave green light to spend money. Deep pockets for this year. He knows they have come close to killing the Golden Goose.

Why has Hoyer not spent the money? Is this insubordination or was Ricketts lying?

Hoyer does not know how to rebuild a team. They panicked in the sell off. They did not get enough almost ready talent for their assets. He completely botched the Contreas situation. He totally misread the top free agent market. Now he will have to overpay for second tier parts to try to fool the fan base into believing we are taking steps towards rebuild. Additionally the Cubs after this off season are so far away from being competitive that the best free agents will not want to come here without some massive overpaying.

In general I disagree.

In a rebuild, the goal is to build a team that can make the playoffs and win the world series.

I want my team to be building towards that goal. *Not* building towards getting random schmuck who watches 2 games a year buying a ticket because he only knows the names of 10 mlb players and my team signed 1 of them.

Those goals are often misaligned. If you are building correctly for the purposes of winning, a big contract for a veteran before your team is actually ready can hurt the rebuild.

[Gregg]

In general I disagree.

In a rebuild, the goal is to build a team that can make the playoffs and win the world series.

I want my team to be building towards that goal. *Not* building towards getting random schmuck who watches 2 games a year buying a ticket because he only knows the names of 10 mlb players and my team signed 1 of them.

Those goals are often misaligned. If you are building correctly for the purposes of winning, a big contract for a veteran before your team is actually ready can hurt the rebuild.

Which is why you would not spend the money on Verlander or de Grom. but you would spend the money on top of the line SS that will be very productive for the 5-6 years before declining. If we are not going to be in the play offs in that window we need new management.

[Ken]

Which is why you would not spend the money on Verlander or de Grom. but you would spend the money on top of the line SS that will be very productive for the 5-6 years before declining. If we are not going to be in the play offs in that window we need new management.

Just to clarify, I want to make sure we're on the same page.

As you said Verlander and DeGrom don't make sense for your vision of the Cubs. So you agree they won't be competitive in the next 2-3 years.

But you still want to buy a 10-13 year huge contract for a player that:

a) Signs now, so the first 2-3 years of that contract are basically thrown in the trash
and
b) Start declining in 5-6 years.

So you are specifically targeting years 4-5 (maybe 6) and you are okay sacrificing years 7-13. And we know for sure that SS will be the weakness of the team in years 4-5 if we don't make this move? So it definitely is the hole you need to fill long term?

We don't know what the current window is for the Cubs, that comes into focus when the prospects are very near ready to produce towards a competitive team. So we are just guessing here that specifically 2026 and 2027 are going to be the window. If it's 2029 instead, we now have a bad contract and a declining player who won't actually help the team. And we wasted money in 2023-2024 that we could have saved and allocated to a position that actually helps the Cubs in their competitive year(s).

Aligning this with other examples, you think the Astros should have signed Jon Lester in 2014 (and he was great in 2015 and 2016), and you are fine if that meant that they would not have been able to get Verlander in 2017 due to pushing the chips in too early??

The reality is that the best plan for a rebuilding team is to wait to make the big splash until the rebuild comes into focus. Buying too early can really hurt a rebuilding team.

[Gregg]

Bear with us Cubs fans we have massive amount of talent in the minors no generational talent but we have quantity. Some will pan out and be pretty good. Just wait until next year, I mean 5 years. After all you did get 2016 and that is only 7 years ago. We will keep the money safe with us.

Sort of kidding aside. I think the Cubs with the right moves could compete in their division this year and built on that over the next few years. They have actually taken a step backwards.

This is not close to a Theo build.

I would like to address some of your other points, but I will be leaving on business in a few minutes and then have dinner and a play tonight.

[Ken]

I would like to address some of your other points, but I will be leaving on business in a few minutes and then have dinner and a play tonight.

Enjoy!