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  • #16
    Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
    The coronavirus story will also become a health-insurance story in America. This guy went to China, caught the flu, came back, did the responsible thing and reported himself for possible coronavirus — but tested negative and now might have to pay $1,400+.
    As someone who pays $20K+ annually for healthcare (between insurance and out of pocket) this doesn't really move the needle at all for me. It sounds like he likely got a lot of medical care and he paid for that medical care. What's the news?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Ken View Post
      As someone who pays $20K+ annually for healthcare (between insurance and out of pocket) this doesn't really move the needle at all for me. It sounds like he likely got a lot of medical care and he paid for that medical care. What's the news?
      Maybe he's not as well off as you financially?
      "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ken View Post
        As someone who pays $20K+ annually for healthcare (between insurance and out of pocket) this doesn't really move the needle at all for me. It sounds like he likely got a lot of medical care and he paid for that medical care. What's the news?
        Close to half of Americans can't afford a $1400 surprise medical bill. They will avoid detection and treatment of Coronavirus (and other health issues) to save money. This could be disastrous for many Americans in the case of Coronavirus and it's spread. It already is disastrous for individuals in many cases with other diseases. It will also potentially lead to people re-considering our current health care system.
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        Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
        ---------------------------------------------
        The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
        George Orwell, 1984

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
          Maybe he's not as well off as you financially?
          Well I would be much more well off if I didn't have the steep medical bills, that's for sure.

          But the point is that he's paying for services he's receiving, and the price doesn't seem outlandish considering the amount of care I'm sure he was given. I'm asking why this is a surprise?

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          • #20
            I have to hand it to Ed. The virus is doing more for US/China relations than Trump's tariffs. Those worked in the long run, but this is proving even more persuasive.

            J
            Ad Astra per Aspera

            Oh. In that case, never mind. - Wonderboy

            GITH fails logic 101. - bryanbutler

            Bah...OJH caught me. - Pogues

            I don't know if you guys are being willfully ignorant, but... - Judge Jude

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
              Close to half of Americans can't afford a $1400 surprise medical bill.
              True. But that's true across numerous other surprise medical expenses that can pop up. But you are right that this is more in the news so maybe it moves the needle more for some. I guess what I'm saying is that those of us who are already inundated with medical bills, who would care the most about the healthcare topic in this election, may be nonplussed by this story. Medical care is very expensive.

              Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
              They will avoid detection and treatment of Coronavirus (and other health issues) to save money. This could be disastrous for many Americans in the case of Coronavirus and it's spread. It already is disastrous for individuals in many cases with other diseases. It will also potentially lead to people re-considering our current health care system.
              I'm not sure I can agree. If someone gets the coronavirus they are scared enough that they are going to a hospital. If anything people are more cautious right now than they have been in the past. When you are faced with a life threatening choice, finances are often thrown out. You'll figure out how to pay for it later.

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              • #22
                there is one caveat when saying whether or not a virus is man made. if you go in there and change some genes yourself with no evidence of it mutating anywhere close in the wild, people will notice.

                on the other hand, if you want to take an avian flu or influenza like H5N1 which is very deadly and make it retain it's severity while boosting it's admissibility, in a laboratory take nasal spray and shoot it up the noses of ferrets. you'd be surprised how quickly the virus adapts to mammals. so theoretically, it could be done but made to look natural. it would still take time though. not something you could keep a secret. and you'd have to involve humans. ..i suppose you could infect the ferrets, an intermediate host and release them and hope the virus somehow develops the ability to infect humans.

                but then you'd have the same situation you have now. it would evolve to be less severe but more transmissible.

                you are not just dealing with scientific, intelligent technological laws. you are dealing with laws of nature. and there are laws there to prevent us from wiping ourselves out. everything has a balance.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ken View Post
                  True. But that's true across numerous other surprise medical expenses that can pop up. But you are right that this is more in the news so maybe it moves the needle more for some. I guess what I'm saying is that those of us who are already inundated with medical bills, who would care the most about the healthcare topic in this election, may be nonplussed by this story. Medical care is very expensive.



                  I'm not sure I can agree. If someone gets the coronavirus they are scared enough that they are going to a hospital. If anything people are more cautious right now than they have been in the past. When you are faced with a life threatening choice, finances are often thrown out. You'll figure out how to pay for it later.
                  Not at all true. Some people don't even know they have it.
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                  George Orwell, 1984

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                    Not at all true. Some people don't even know they have it.
                    I'm confused, how does that factor into this? If they don't know they have it then they won't be making the choice on whether they should get care. If they *think* they may have it, and know it is deadly, then they are going to get checked out.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ken View Post
                      I'm confused, how does that factor into this? If they don't know they have it then they won't be making the choice on whether they should get care. If they *think* they may have it, and know it is deadly, then they are going to get checked out.
                      I disagree.










                      completely. It isn't a zero or a one. Some people will have no symptoms and some will have death as far as I know. And the progression of symptoms probably isn't obvious. The decision to spend money that you don't have (and miss work, etc) is not one people make easily. So they will delay treatment until symptoms worsen. This will put others at risk and make containment much more difficult.
                      ---------------------------------------------
                      Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                      ---------------------------------------------
                      The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                      George Orwell, 1984

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ken View Post
                        I'm confused, how does that factor into this? If they don't know they have it then they won't be making the choice on whether they should get care. If they *think* they may have it, and know it is deadly, then they are going to get checked out.
                        The other point I think you are missing, is that if Coronavirus is widespread the financial difficulty that many face would quite possibly be helpful to those promoting M4A.
                        ---------------------------------------------
                        Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                        ---------------------------------------------
                        The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                        George Orwell, 1984

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                          The other point I think you are missing, is that if Coronavirus is widespread the financial difficulty that many face would quite possibly be helpful to those promoting M4A.
                          And to be clear.that isnt what i hope happens. I hope it is contained
                          ---------------------------------------------
                          Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                          ---------------------------------------------
                          The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                          George Orwell, 1984

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            A couple interesting articles. There are a couple twitter feeds I check as well, will add those later

                            Most cases are not life-threatening, which is also what makes the virus a historic challenge to contain.


                            by Jody Lanard and Peter M. Sandman NOTE FROM IAN: The expert risk communication team of Lanard and Sandman has given me permission to post their very well-considered reply to my question of them just
                            ---------------------------------------------
                            Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                            ---------------------------------------------
                            The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                            George Orwell, 1984

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                              Close to half of Americans can't afford a $1400 surprise medical bill. They will avoid detection and treatment of Coronavirus (and other health issues) to save money. This could be disastrous for many Americans in the case of Coronavirus and it's spread. It already is disastrous for individuals in many cases with other diseases. It will also potentially lead to people re-considering our current health care system.
                              Not to mention this was the bill for someone who did not test positive. How many people may actually need treatment that cant afford it ?
                              ---------------------------------------------
                              Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                              ---------------------------------------------
                              The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                              George Orwell, 1984

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                                The other point I think you are missing, is that if Coronavirus is widespread the financial difficulty that many face would quite possibly be helpful to those promoting M4A.
                                Good points. I agree....

                                Comment

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