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Entering into the world of hand guns.

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  • #31
    We had two hours of classroom study. We learned safety, how hand guns work, how ammunition works. We did not shoot at this session.

    The instructor is ex-Army, ex-Navy, ex-policeman- ex-sheriff. He was shot twice in the line of his military duty. He was both funny and serious. He has a passion for the safety of America and a passion for keeping all of our rights especially the right to own guns.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Gregg View Post
      We had two hours of classroom study. We learned safety, how hand guns work, how ammunition works. We did not shoot at this session.

      The instructor is ex-Army, ex-Navy, ex-policeman- ex-sheriff. He was shot twice in the line of his military duty. He was both funny and serious. He has a passion for the safety of America and a passion for keeping all of our rights especially the right to own guns.
      Sounds like a good session...understanding how things work is a really good idea. I wish I knew more about how just about EVERYTHING works in daily life...
      "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
      - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

      "Your shitty future continues to offend me."
      -Warren Ellis

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Hornsby View Post
        Sounds like a good session...understanding how things work is a really good idea. I wish I knew more about how just about EVERYTHING works in daily life...
        Thank you.

        The understanding of how the guns and ammunition work are fundamental to safety.

        Our instructor is of the mind set that there are no gun accidents only gun ignorance. When bad things happen that I would have called accidental he would call ignorance. When he first stated his position I was skeptical. Throughout the night I came around to his thinking. Every accident that I could think of comes down to ignorance.

        The first rule of safety: Never point any gun (loaded or unloaded) at someone unless you intend to shoot them.

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        • #34
          I would liken gun ownership to riding a motorcycle. People can be well trained to follow all of the safety procedures in the world in both shooting and riding motorcycles, but when something unexpected happens in either situation, the chances of death go up exponentially as opposed to not owning a gun or not riding a motorcycle.

          I wouldn't support my daughter, or any of my loved ones riding a motorcycle. Just as I wouldn't support them buying a gun.

          Would you support your daughters riding a motorcycle if they were properly trained, despite statistical evidence showing the increased likelihood of death or debilitating injury?

          My sister rode a scooter for a few years and I always criticized her for it, especially knowing how aggressively people drive around scooters. Am I just a jerk who can't mind my own business?
          Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
            I would liken gun ownership to riding a motorcycle. People can be well trained to follow all of the safety procedures in the world in both shooting and riding motorcycles, but when something unexpected happens in either situation, the chances of death go up exponentially as opposed to not owning a gun or not riding a motorcycle.

            I wouldn't support my daughter, or any of my loved ones riding a motorcycle. Just as I wouldn't support them buying a gun.

            Would you support your daughters riding a motorcycle if they were properly trained, despite statistical evidence showing the increased likelihood of death or debilitating injury?

            My sister rode a scooter for a few years and I always criticized her for it, especially knowing how aggressively people drive around scooters. Am I just a jerk who can't mind my own business?
            I have owned a motorcycle. I do not see the correlation you are making to it.

            I do not think people intentionally drive aggressively around scooters. I think people drive aggressively and in their haste do not notice motorcycles, road workers, pedestrians, other cars, etc.

            Hey, did you get a chance to ask your wife the question?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
              My sister rode a scooter for a few years and I always criticized her for it, especially knowing how aggressively people drive around scooters. Am I just a jerk who can't mind my own business?
              I think it's a little different in that I know if anyone gets hurt on my bike, it's going to be me. The car will have a little dent.

              I think I'd have patience for a bit knowing your concern came out of love... "always criticized" would wear pretty quickly though.
              I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                I would liken gun ownership to riding a motorcycle. People can be well trained to follow all of the safety procedures in the world in both shooting and riding motorcycles, but when something unexpected happens in either situation, the chances of death go up exponentially as opposed to not owning a gun or not riding a motorcycle.

                I wouldn't support my daughter, or any of my loved ones riding a motorcycle. Just as I wouldn't support them buying a gun.

                Would you support your daughters riding a motorcycle if they were properly trained, despite statistical evidence showing the increased likelihood of death or debilitating injury?

                My sister rode a scooter for a few years and I always criticized her for it, especially knowing how aggressively people drive around scooters. Am I just a jerk who can't mind my own business?
                Did you reserve your opinion?
                It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years and we must stop it.
                Bill Clinton 1995, State of the Union Address


                "When they go low - we go High" great motto - too bad it was a sack of bullshit. DNC election mantra

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                • #38
                  I wouldn't want my daughter or my son to either ride a motorcycle or possess a gun. My kids are scary enough already.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
                    I wouldn't want my daughter or my son to either ride a motorcycle or possess a gun. My kids are scary enough already.
                    I bet if they want to though, they'll be able to present compelling arguments.
                    It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TranaGreg View Post
                      I bet if they want to though, they'll be able to present compelling arguments.
                      LOL. Yeah, they are nothing if not passionate self-advocates.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
                        I wouldn't want my daughter or my son to either ride a motorcycle or possess a gun. My kids are scary enough already.
                        when I was 10 years old I went to "Dirtbike, Shooting, and Horseback Riding Camp", which in hindsight is madness. The only real rule the stoned 16 year old counselors put on us was "No Mixing!", don't ride the dirtbikes near the horses, no shooting from horseback or from the dirtbikes, etc. As a little kid, we only got to shoot the .22 rifles
                        "You know what's wrong with America? If I lovingly tongue a woman's nipple in a movie, it gets an "NC-17" rating, if I chop it off with a machete, it's an "R". That's what's wrong with America, man...."--Dennis Hopper

                        "One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real." -- Klaus Kinski

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Gregg View Post
                          I have owned a motorcycle. I do not see the correlation you are making to it.

                          I do not think people intentionally drive aggressively around scooters. I think people drive aggressively and in their haste do not notice motorcycles, road workers, pedestrians, other cars, etc.

                          Hey, did you get a chance to ask your wife the question?
                          You dont see the correlation between handguns and motorcycles because you're relying on personal accountability to overcome statistical probability.

                          As far as people driving aggressively, in a city like Vancouver, where even rich people need to live an hour outside the city and commute in and out daily, there are drivers who treat scooter riders like they dont deserve the right to ride it. Shes had multiple drivers flip her off and curse her out, sometimes cutting into her lane attempting to run her off the road or just terrify her... The implied threat is real, and the consequences of an accident are too great for me to support scooter riding, especially in such a hostile environment. I also once answered the door to my wife covered in blood, as she had witnessed a cyclist get hit by a car, and she helped get him care. The sight of her covered in someone else's blood, and the horrifying story that followed really made me reconsider riding a bike in that city, let alone a motorcycle. (I realize I'm responding with skepticism of anecdotes by providing my own anecdotes, but statistics would back me up on the risk factors in both)

                          I asked my wife about the scenario of her being harassed or abused by 2 bigots, and a stranger coming along the scene. When I asked if she'd want the stranger to have a gun, she said "absolutely no way, not ever." She explained that the assumption up here is that most people, even criminals, are not carrying guns. She gave the example of Macs convenience stores. There's an epidemic of these stories being robbed, and yet I cant think of a single time it's been reported robbed a gunpoint. It's always a knife, a syringe, sometimes weird things like a snow shovel, or ice scraper. These are real examples.... there just aren't guns here, in use by criminals or by citizens for protection, unless those criminals or citizens are hunters in the act of hunting. So essentially, we dont need your gun in the scenario because we dont live in a place that's been overrun by guns. Your gun is the problem, it's exactly what would increase the level of terror in the situation. I'm so thankful Canada has sensible gun laws.
                          Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                            You dont see the correlation between handguns and motorcycles because you're relying on personal accountability to overcome statistical probability.

                            As far as people driving aggressively, in a city like Vancouver, where even rich people need to live an hour outside the city and commute in and out daily, there are drivers who treat scooter riders like they dont deserve the right to ride it. Shes had multiple drivers flip her off and curse her out, sometimes cutting into her lane attempting to run her off the road or just terrify her... The implied threat is real, and the consequences of an accident are too great for me to support scooter riding, especially in such a hostile environment. I also once answered the door to my wife covered in blood, as she had witnessed a cyclist get hit by a car, and she helped get him care. The sight of her covered in someone else's blood, and the horrifying story that followed really made me reconsider riding a bike in that city, let alone a motorcycle. (I realize I'm responding with skepticism of anecdotes by providing my own anecdotes, but statistics would back me up on the risk factors in both)

                            I asked my wife about the scenario of her being harassed or abused by 2 bigots, and a stranger coming along the scene. When I asked if she'd want the stranger to have a gun, she said "absolutely no way, not ever." She explained that the assumption up here is that most people, even criminals, are not carrying guns. She gave the example of Macs convenience stores. There's an epidemic of these stories being robbed, and yet I cant think of a single time it's been reported robbed a gunpoint. It's always a knife, a syringe, sometimes weird things like a snow shovel, or ice scraper. These are real examples.... there just aren't guns here, in use by criminals or by citizens for protection, unless those criminals or citizens are hunters in the act of hunting. So essentially, we dont need your gun in the scenario because we dont live in a place that's been overrun by guns. Your gun is the problem, it's exactly what would increase the level of terror in the situation. I'm so thankful Canada has sensible gun laws.
                            Thanks for your responses and letting us know how Mrs. Teenwolf responded.

                            I have to admit I am a little shocked, surprised and confused about your answers. You paint a picture of a terrible bigoted, nasty aggressive, dangerous place to live and don't feel the need to protect yourselves (or move as fast as you can).

                            I am also thinking that we are on a much different thought plane when talking about "harassed and abused." I was thinking more mugged/beating and attempted rape than name calling and purse grabbing.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gregg View Post
                              Thanks for your responses and letting us know how Mrs. Teenwolf responded.

                              I have to admit I am a little shocked, surprised and confused about your answers. You paint a picture of a terrible bigoted, nasty aggressive, dangerous place to live and don't feel the need to protect yourselves (or move as fast as you can).

                              I am also thinking that we are on a much different thought plane when talking about "harassed and abused." I was thinking more mugged/beating and attempted rape than name calling and purse grabbing.
                              Some quibbles. First, I am doing everything to move out of town as quickly as possible. That means waiting until my 11 year old daughter is a bit older, ready to handle being separated. We believe 15 is the earliest departure timeline, but it will fluctuate.

                              Secondly, the "painted picture" I've given of Thunder Bay is 100% accurate, based on lived experience and backed up by statistical evidence. #1 in hate crimes, #1 murder rate, #1 alcohol consumption, several others I'm forgetting... so much winning, hard to keep track.

                              Thirdly, your assertion that my wife and I "dont feel the need to protect ourselves" is a huge leap from saying we dont support guns for personal protection. I've already explained the reasoning behind this lack of support. Guns increase the odds of death and trauma in every single situation... YOU may feel added safety if carrying a gun when encountering a woman being raped or mugged, but my wife would NOT feel safer through a stranger (you or anybody else, even me) approaching the scene with a gun, as opposed to approaching unarmed or with any other weapon. Seems very logical to me.

                              Personally, I'd prefer you approach with a tee ball bat.
                              Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                                Some quibbles. First, I am doing everything to move out of town as quickly as possible. That means waiting until my 11 year old daughter is a bit older, ready to handle being separated. We believe 15 is the earliest departure timeline, but it will fluctuate.

                                Secondly, the "painted picture" I've given of Thunder Bay is 100% accurate, based on lived experience and backed up by statistical evidence. #1 in hate crimes, #1 murder rate, #1 alcohol consumption, several others I'm forgetting... so much winning, hard to keep track.

                                Thirdly, your assertion that my wife and I "dont feel the need to protect ourselves" is a huge leap from saying we dont support guns for personal protection. I've already explained the reasoning behind this lack of support. Guns increase the odds of death and trauma in every single situation... YOU may feel added safety if carrying a gun when encountering a woman being raped or mugged, but my wife would NOT feel safer through a stranger (you or anybody else, even me) approaching the scene with a gun, as opposed to approaching unarmed or with any other weapon. Seems very logical to me.

                                Personally, I'd prefer you approach with a tee ball bat.
                                Thanks for the reply. Just curious on the #1 murder rate; how are the murders being accomplished?

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