Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[chancellor]

exactly, he is critical of Ukraine because he knows that will help sell a lot of records, lol

I think it is most likely, that he is extremely anti-war and against a lot of Western government actions, as well as some from Russia...but if he was trying to sell records he would be waving a Ukranian flag and not making controversial comments like he does.

EDIT: getting back to what started my recent comments, it was claimed he is an open Putin supporter. What a way to sell records, huh ?

Don't know about records, but it got him a lot of concert gigs back in the day, along with highly favorable Russian press. "Is" might not be the correct verb, but "was" is correct, relative to his support of Putin. Perhaps you can tell me how to justify Russia's occupying Crimea, which Waters was clearly very much on board with?

It's clear our mileage varies here - I'm sure had Russia crushed Ukraine, as many thought would happen, that Waters would be right back kissing Putin's ass. You apparently do not.

[GwynnInTheHall]

One world, it's a battleground
One world, and we will smash it down
One world ... One world

[The Feral Slasher]

One world, it's a battleground
One world, and we will smash it down
One world ... One world

on a somewhat related note.... this spring i was walking past a bar and they had a live band that played the opening to "welcome to the machine" and it was just about the greatest thing I have ever heard.

[heyelander]

If true, and the Kyiv Independent has been pretty good about the news they break, this is insane. Imagine a leader of a developed country sending tens of thousands of its citizens to be slaughtered without any training whatsoever. And god knows what weapons they'll be given, I've seen videos of shoddy equipment being handed to them.

that seems par for the course with russian wars. Send more bodies, when one dies, the next in line can pick up their gun and enter the fray.

[chancellor]

Russia's losses are compounding, and quickly. Looks like an entire 10 km line has crumbled in the Kherson area, and anywhere the Ukrainians push, the Russians are running away - and leaving tons of supply behind. There's talk now that if Ukraine wants to, they can push all the way to the Crimea - and possibly take that back, too.

[heyelander]

Not sure why they are all still fighting Elon Musk has this whole thing figured out and should broker a peace any day now.

[Kevin Seitzer]

that seems par for the course with russian wars. Send more bodies, when one dies, the next in line can pick up their gun and enter the fray.

Except they left their gun when they ran away from the front line, apparently.

[chancellor]

Except they left their gun when they ran away from the front line, apparently.

And artillery...

[revo]

The Kerch Bridge, which connects the mainland to Crimea and is the only way in or out by road, had one of its two spans collapse due to a truck bomb explosion.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Reports have a Russian Missle overshooting it's target in Ukraine and landing in Poland killing 2.
Unconfirmed, but concerning nevertheless.

[Sour Masher]

I heard an intersting take recently that suggested economics is the driving force behind how this has and will play out. If the Fed hadn't raised interest rates, the theory goes, we may already have entered the war. As it is, high interest rates make financing a trillion dollar plus war incredibly difficult. But on the other side, dipping energy needs because of an emerging recession in Europe allows for the EU to further isolate Russia, increasing their economic isolation and finacial pain. Their two biggest energy buyers--China and India have urged Putin to deescalate.

So, all of the economic forces are in favor of the war ending, but I still think it is hard to know what Putin will do. None of his moves to date have made sense at all. He seems obsessed with going down in history as someone that restored some of the former land and glory to the USSR. Still, he faces tremendous pressure in the world, external and internal, to not escalate this any further, so I can't fathom him using nuclear weapons, but he just keeps pushing this war, despite all the death and pain it causes for Ukrainian and Russian people. One would hope these pressures lead to him finding a way to end this while saving face, somehow. It is heartbreaking to see this war keep going on and on, with all this needless suffering. It is so mindboggling to me, as I have said many times before, that the right in this country went from seeing Russia as the ultimate enemy to defending Putin.

[The Feral Slasher]

I heard an intersting take recently that suggested economics is the driving force behind how this has and will play out. If the Fed hadn't raised interest rates, the theory goes, we may already have entered the war. As it is, high interest rates make financing a trillion dollar plus war incredibly difficult. But on the other side, dipping energy needs because of an emerging recession in Europe allows for the EU to further isolate Russia, increasing their economic isolation and finacial pain. Their two biggest energy buyers--China and India have urged Putin to deescalate.

So, all of the economic forces are in favor of the war ending, but I still think it is hard to know what Putin will do. None of his moves to date have made sense at all. He seems obsessed with going down in history as someone that restored some of the former land and glory to the USSR. Still, he faces tremendous pressure in the world, external and internal, to not escalate this any further, so I can't fathom him using nuclear weapons, but he just keeps pushing this war, despite all the death and pain it causes for Ukrainian and Russian people. One would hope these pressures lead to him finding a way to end this while saving face, somehow. It is heartbreaking to see this war keep going on and on, with all this needless suffering. It is so mindboggling to me, as I have said many times before, that the right in this country went from seeing Russia as the ultimate enemy to defending Putin.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. There are certainly a lot of economic impacts, but a lot of people can make a lot of money thru continuation of the war. And I think there a quite a few people who like the idea of fighting Russia without having to send any Americans to die.

[Sour Masher]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. There are certainly a lot of economic impacts, but a lot of people can make a lot of money thru continuation of the war. And I think there a quite a few people who like the idea of fighting Russia without having to send any Americans to die.

The MIC, for sure, is pushing this, but it seems like an easier push when the country and world are not on the edge of recession, when interest rates are high, and when close to 30% of our current non-entitlement budget has to go to interest payments, because money is no longer free. There is precedent for all of this being ignored, central banks being pressured into lowering interest rates to fund the war machine, but conditions are not optimal for that now. The hawks have a much easier sales job when interest rates are low and there are not other financial priorities in play. Still, it is hard to know exactly how this plays out when you have Putin steering where this goes, ultimately. I was just posting to talk out ideas that I want to believe make it less likely that there will be further escalation and more likely that this horrible war ends quickly. There are still many economic sanctions that could be put into play, but have not been so far. I guess the West wants to hold those cards to give Russia something to lose for going nuclear, and because enacting some of those sanctions would also hurt western countries. The status quo is just brutal, though. Ukraine and its people have proven to be incredbly resiliant and Zelensky has shown tremendous resolve and courage, but the deaths and suffering are horrific and I can't believe it continues after this long with no clear end in sight. Even though people have talked about how bad this is going for Russia since the beggining, and how bad it has gone for Putin personally, the war continues.

[chancellor]

And I think there a quite a few people who like the idea of fighting Russia without having to send any Americans to die.

Raises hand.....We could just ignore Russia biting off chunks of nations like Ukraine and Moldova, but it didn't work really well for anyone letting Germany and Russia do that about 85-90 years ago. Those who ignore history ae doomed to repeat it and all.

[The Feral Slasher]

Raises hand.....We could just ignore Russia biting off chunks of nations like Ukraine and Moldova, but it didn't work really well for anyone letting Germany and Russia do that about 85-90 years ago. Those who ignore history ae doomed to repeat it and all.

I don't think there is much of a comparison between current Russia in their military capability or aggression compared to Germany leading up to WW2. But I'd certainly listen to other viewpoints about how a 30 mile long Russian convoy that sits on the highway before retreating is just like the Blitzkrieg that conquered numerous countries in days or weeks.

EDIT: In WW2 Germany had the desire and potential to conquer all of Europe...does anyone think the same is true of Russia today or in the near future. Is Russia ready to battle NATO in Europe ?