Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[madducks]

British rock legend and Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters’ planned concerts in Poland in April have been canceled amid a backlash to the musician’s stance on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

The cancellation comes after Waters, 79, published a controversial open letter on his website in early September to Ukrainian first lady Olena Zelenska. In the letter, Waters wrote that he opposed the West sending weapons to Ukraine to aid the embattled country in its war against invading Russia.

Waters also accused Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky of doubling back on his 2019 election campaign promises and said, without offering proof, that “the forces of extreme nationalism that had lurked, malevolent, in the shadows, have, since then, ruled the Ukraine.”

Waters went on to accuse these “extreme nationalists” of setting Ukraine on a path to war with Russia by crossing a “number of red lines” set out by the Kremlin.

Earlier this year, Pink Floyd released their first new music in 28 years, a single called “Hey Hey Rise Up” to raise funds for humanitarian relief in Ukraine. Waters, who is an open supporter of Putin and departed the band in 1984, did not contribute to the song.

[The Feral Slasher]

British rock legend and Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters’ planned concerts in Poland in April have been canceled amid a backlash to the musician’s stance on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

The cancellation comes after Waters, 79, published a controversial open letter on his website in early September to Ukrainian first lady Olena Zelenska. In the letter, Waters wrote that he opposed the West sending weapons to Ukraine to aid the embattled country in its war against invading Russia.

Waters also accused Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky of doubling back on his 2019 election campaign promises and said, without offering proof, that “the forces of extreme nationalism that had lurked, malevolent, in the shadows, have, since then, ruled the Ukraine.”

Waters went on to accuse these “extreme nationalists” of setting Ukraine on a path to war with Russia by crossing a “number of red lines” set out by the Kremlin.

Earlier this year, Pink Floyd released their first new music in 28 years, a single called “Hey Hey Rise Up” to raise funds for humanitarian relief in Ukraine. Waters, who is an open supporter of Putin and departed the band in 1984, .

Do you have an evidence for this ? This is a little old, so maybe he changed, but that would surprise me.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/roger-water-russia-ukraine-1319000/

ROGER WATERS CONDEMNS Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in an open letter to 19-year-old Ukrainian woman named Alina Mitrofanova. “I am disgusted by [Russian President Vladimir] Putin’s invasion of Ukraine,” he wrote Wednesday.

“It is a criminal mistake in my opinion, the act of a gangster. There must be an immediate ceasefire. I regret that Western governments are fueling the fire that will destroy your beautiful country by pouring arms into Ukraine, instead of engaging in the diplomacy that will be necessary to stop the slaughter.”

The former Pink Floyd singer-songwriter also put the text of his letter in a video that accompanied with his recent re-recording of Floyd’s anti-war song, “The Gunner’s Dream.”

“I will do anything I can to help effect the end of this awful war in your country, anything that is except wave a flag to encourage the slaughter,” he wrote. “That is what the gangsters want, they want us to wave flags. That is how they divide and control us, by encouraging the waving of flags, to create a smokescreen of enmity to blind us to our innate capacity to empathize with one another, while they plunder and rape our fragile planet. I will do everything in my power to help bring peace back to you and your family and your beautiful country.”

[madducks]

Do you have an evidence for this ? This is a little old, so maybe he changed, but that would surprise me.

[James Earl Jones voice] This is CNN.

I was surprised too. Maybe it's wrong. Here's the entire article:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/25/enter...ine/index.html

[The Feral Slasher]

[James Earl Jones voice] This is CNN.

I was surprised too. Maybe it's wrong. Here's the entire article:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/25/enter...ine/index.html

Surprised by what ? There is no evidence in there that indicates he is an open supporter of Putin.

Putin is a horrible, evil, man so if you or others are going to claim someone is an open supporter of him I would hope you would provide some facts that support the assertion. It seems like really poor journalism for CNN to report it they way they did.

[heyelander]

Surprised by what ? There is no evidence in there that indicates he is an open supporter of Putin.

Putin is a horrible, evil, man so if you or others are going to claim someone is an open supporter of him I would hope you would provide some facts that support the assertion. It seems like really poor journalism for CNN to report it they way they did.

Saw Roger Waters last week. Pretty sure there were anti-Putin graphics as part of the show. I think he's anti-war and anti-authoritarian all around. Putin would be the last guy he would support.

[The Feral Slasher]

Saw Roger Waters last week. Pretty sure there were anti-Putin graphics as part of the show. I think he's anti-war and anti-authoritarian all around. Putin would be the last guy he would support.

yeah, the authors of the CNN piece tried to label him Pro-Putin because he is anti-war and does not approve of every Ukranian and American action prior to and after the invasion. Really a hatchet job, but apparently effective. Needless to say, me pointing this out does not mean that I approve of all his comments and positions.

[chancellor]

yeah, the authors of the CNN piece tried to label him Pro-Putin because he is anti-war and does not approve of every Ukranian and American action prior to and after the invasion. Really a hatchet job, but apparently effective. Needless to say, me pointing this out does not mean that I approve of all his comments and positions.

I'm no CNN fan, but that's no hatchet job. Waters supported the annexation of the Crimea because Russia was "provoked", and spouted other pro-Russian propaganda and gave interviews to pro-Putin newspapers around the same time.

Call me a cynic, but I suspect Roger Waters now calling Putin a gangster is a lot more linked to not wanting to have him banned from the US for his recent tour, and nothing else.

[chancellor]

The article is completely one sided. It notes that Waters does not provide proof for his claims, but doesn't note the person accusing him of being Pro-Putin provides no proof. Whether or not a person agrees with Waters is a separate question. But the article clearly had an agenda.

Had an agenda? Sure. Hatchet job? Nope. Waters brought this on himself, and fully deserves every hard look he gets. It's no mystery to me why Waters tune has changed on Putin, and it's not that Waters suddenly has a conscience. Being pro-Putin a few years ago kept him rolling in the Benjamins, and anti-Putin now helps keep the money flowing. Good to see some places - like Poland - recognize him for the hypocrite he is.

[revo]

If true, and the Kyiv Independent has been pretty good about the news they break, this is insane. Imagine a leader of a developed country sending tens of thousands of its citizens to be slaughtered without any training whatsoever. And god knows what weapons they'll be given, I've seen videos of shoddy equipment being handed to them.

[Sour Masher]

Had an agenda? Sure. Hatchet job? Nope. Waters brought this on himself, and fully deserves every hard look he gets. It's no mystery to me why Waters tune has changed on Putin, and it's not that Waters suddenly has a conscience. Being pro-Putin a few years ago kept him rolling in the Benjamins, and anti-Putin now helps keep the money flowing. Good to see some places - like Poland - recognize him for the hypocrite he is.

Yeah, I recall reading Waters' actual words in the past supporting the annexation of Crimea and defending Putin's actions there as a defensive response to Western aggression, so while I applaud his evolution on Putin given his more recent actions during his invasion of Ukraine and the atrocities inflicted in his name, it is fair to be cynical about that shift given that Putin was horrible way before this war, and he seemed to ignore/dance around that fact in his previous criticisms of the West in relation to Russia. He has also called Taiwan a part of China in the past. Overall, he seems staunchly anti-war and frustrated by Western interventions, and I am sure his disgust at the atrocities Putin has inflicted are sincere, but it is also perplexing that he would have ever given Putin any kind of pass. His previous support for Russia and China's claims of ownership to disputed territories may have their roots in anti-interventionalist, but that understandably won him few fans in those territories.

He also comes across as condescending and dismissive of anyone who holds contradictory opinions on Russia's and China's claims to these territories and often suggests those that disagree with him are dumb or ill-informed. He was certain that rumblings of an invasion, for instance, were totally bogus, to the point that he called people believing it would happen did not have IQs above room temperature. To be fair, when the invasion happened a month later, he did express disgust at it, and even though he continued to highlight that the West was largely at fault for it by provoking the invasion, at least at that point he also did call out Putin as well. So, I don't think he was ever really pro-Putin as much as anti-interventionist, but his stance, even if valid, did seem to lead him to side-step assigning the proper blame to Putin and not speaking out as much on what a monster Putin is.

[Gregg]

Had an agenda? Sure. Hatchet job? Nope. Waters brought this on himself, and fully deserves every hard look he gets. It's no mystery to me why Waters tune has changed on Putin, and it's not that Waters suddenly has a conscience. Being pro-Putin a few years ago kept him rolling in the Benjamins, and anti-Putin now helps keep the money flowing. Good to see some places - like Poland - recognize him for the hypocrite he is.

And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?
We call it riding the gravy train

[Sour Masher]

exactly, he is critical of Ukraine because he knows that will help sell a lot of records, lol

I think it is most likely, that he is extremely anti-war and against a lot of Western government actions, as well as some from Russia...but if he was trying to sell records he would be waving a Ukranian flag and not making controversial comments like he does.

EDIT: getting back to what started my recent comments, it was claimed he is an open Putin supporter. What a way to sell records, huh ?

I think this is a fair assessment of him. Hard to hate a guy for being anti-war. And I am sure he hates what Putin is doing now. I am just perplexed by how he seemed to not want to focus on what a monster Putin was in the past. Perhaps he felt if he did, it would give people a justification for wanting to stand against Putin, which would lead to more bloodshed, and seem to justify Western actions that are really about their own self-interest. I understand the perspective, but many of the people who do not want Putin's government controlling them disagree, obviously. But yeah, the article has clear bias and side-steps the larger conversation in favor of just calling out Waters.

[Sour Masher]

If true, and the Kyiv Independent has been pretty good about the news they break, this is insane. Imagine a leader of a developed country sending tens of thousands of its citizens to be slaughtered without any training whatsoever. And god knows what weapons they'll be given, I've seen videos of shoddy equipment being handed to them.

What I don't get is how these poorly traded troops are so committed to the cause as to commit atrocities as a means to achieving those ends. I know many of them do not and some abandon vehicles and leave, but at least some seem to revel in their power and inflict horrendous atrocities on both soldiers and civilians alike. I guess if you give enough people guns and a license to kill with little to no oversight of how they go about reaching their objectives, such things are bound to happen.

[The Feral Slasher]

What I don't get is how these poorly traded troops are so committed to the cause as to commit atrocities as a means to achieving those ends. I know many of them do not and some abandon vehicles and leave, but at least some seem to revel in their power and inflict horrendous atrocities on both soldiers and civilians alike. I guess if you give enough people guns and a license to kill with little to no oversight of how they go about reaching their objectives, such things are bound to happen.

atrocities are going to happen in any war. putting guns in the hands of "soldiers" with no training might make it more likely. It probably has little to do with their commitment to the cause. If they were that committed they could have volunteered, but these are conscripts. This is terrible news.

[umjewman]

What I don't get is how these poorly traded troops are so committed to the cause as to commit atrocities as a means to achieving those ends. I know many of them do not and some abandon vehicles and leave, but at least some seem to revel in their power and inflict horrendous atrocities on both soldiers and civilians alike. I guess if you give enough people guns and a license to kill with little to no oversight of how they go about reaching their objectives, such things are bound to happen.

Without any evidence, it wouldn’t shock me if their families are held hostage pending their satisfactory service to the motherland. That can be a motivating factor to do god only knows what.