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Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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  • #31
    Originally posted by rhd View Post
    I think this video pretty well describes the history leading up to this situation and the current state of affairs:



    This is yet another huge foreign policy black eye for Biden, altho this disaster was mostly inherited from several past administrations.
    I find it really interesting that all of a sudden, promoting and protecting democracies around the world has become a bad thing and that we should stop with the--don't tell us what to do--attitudes. That one is surprising coming from a right leaning broadcast seeing as how many on the right have spent the past 2+ years saying exactly that.
    If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
      How is this a black eye for Biden ?
      It would seem delusional to think otherwise.

      Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
      What is he supposed to do about this?
      Not much now. That's the tragedy of it - Ukraine is being hung out to dry because the West is not going to defend it because it is not in NATO. But he still gets a black eye just the same because it happened on his watch and he was continuing the same policy as previous administration(s). The video basically says that if the West had just agreed that it would not pursue offering NATO membership to Ukraine, Ukraine could have at least remained an independent and war-free country altho perhaps having to be careful not to get too cozy w the West. Because the West's miscalculation of Putin's resolve (and also evidently the Ukranian government's miscalculation of the West's support), Ukraine is in the terrible situation it is in. At least that's the premise. Maybe Russia would have tried to take back all or part of Ukraine anyway. That's speculation but you see what's actually happened. And the result is many lives on both Ukrainian and Russian sides will be lost now and another major refugee crisis will begin. And also there's the possibility of even much more serious dangers in the future in the rest of the world resulting from this.

      Now that it's happened, I hope that economic sanctions and cutting off Russia from the world's financial system will cause Putin to allow Ukraine to retain some measure of freedom and autonomy. But I'm not optimistic. Western Europe is pretty dependent on Russian energy. Russia will cut this off in retaliation. The US doesnt have enough to supply them. The pressure may cause them to ease the sanctions.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
        I would assume he's referring to Afghanistan. Which was another systemic, multiple administration failure. Though Biden really could have handled the withdrawal a bit better.
        Yeah, that's it. Of course, we had to get out but the way it was done was a disaster.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by rhd View Post
          I think this video pretty well describes the history leading up to this situation and the current state of affairs:



          This is yet another huge foreign policy black eye for Biden, altho this disaster was mostly inherited from several past administrations.
          Ukraine was never going to join NATO. Sure they may have wanted to but NATO was never seriously considering them. They knew what it would mean to Russia. This is just an excuse. Russia needed a justification and it manufactured several. Of course if Russia really didn't want Ukraine to want to join NATO they could have been a better neighbor to them.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by rhd View Post
            Yeah, that's it. Of course, we had to get out but the way it was done was a disaster.
            A disaster would have been staying there another four years. The evacuation was merely a shitshow.
            ---------------------------------------------
            Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
            ---------------------------------------------
            The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
            George Orwell, 1984

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by rhd View Post
              It would seem delusional to think otherwise.



              Not much now. That's the tragedy of it - Ukraine is being hung out to dry because the West is not going to defend it because it is not in NATO. But he still gets a black eye just the same because it happened on his watch and he was continuing the same policy as previous administration(s). The video basically says that if the West had just agreed that it would not pursue offering NATO membership to Ukraine, Ukraine could have at least remained an independent and war-free country altho perhaps having to be careful not to get too cozy w the West. Because the West's miscalculation of Putin's resolve (and also evidently the Ukranian government's miscalculation of the West's support), Ukraine is in the terrible situation it is in. At least that's the premise. Maybe Russia would have tried to take back all or part of Ukraine anyway. That's speculation but you see what's actually happened. And the result is many lives on both Ukrainian and Russian sides will be lost now and another major refugee crisis will begin. And also there's the possibility of even much more serious dangers in the future in the rest of the world resulting from this.

              Now that it's happened, I hope that economic sanctions and cutting off Russia from the world's financial system will cause Putin to allow Ukraine to retain some measure of freedom and autonomy. But I'm not optimistic. Western Europe is pretty dependent on Russian energy. Russia will cut this off in retaliation. The US doesnt have enough to supply them. The pressure may cause them to ease the sanctions.
              So are you saying Biden should have gotten Ukraine into NATO ? What should he have done to prevent the Russian invasion which you apparently hold him responsible for.
              ---------------------------------------------
              Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
              ---------------------------------------------
              The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
              George Orwell, 1984

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                I would assume he's referring to Afghanistan. Which was another systemic, multiple administration failure. Though Biden really could have handled the withdrawal a bit better.
                Yeah, like he could have not sanctioned Afghanistan into widespread starvation and suffering, directly hurting the citizens they claimed to occupy to protect for 2 decades.

                Will he sanction Russia aggressively in much the same way, welcoming Russian retaliation/escalation? Surrounded by war hawks, its quite likely.

                I think we need to hope China is backing Russia, so escalation is limited. Then the next domino comes when China takes Taiwan.

                I hope Biden limits sanctions here, but I'm no expert. Just my take.
                Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                  Yeah, like he could have not sanctioned Afghanistan into widespread starvation and suffering, directly hurting the citizens they claimed to occupy to protect for 2 decades.
                  .
                  The 20 year war and the crippling sanctions are never considered disasters. It's just the disorganized ending to a 20 year boondoggle that really matters.
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                  ---------------------------------------------
                  The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                  George Orwell, 1984

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                    Yeah, like he could have not sanctioned Afghanistan into widespread starvation and suffering, directly hurting the citizens they claimed to occupy to protect for 2 decades.

                    Will he sanction Russia aggressively in much the same way, welcoming Russian retaliation/escalation? Surrounded by war hawks, its quite likely.

                    I think we need to hope China is backing Russia, so escalation is limited. Then the next domino comes when China takes Taiwan.

                    I hope Biden limits sanctions here, but I'm no expert. Just my take.
                    Just out of curiosity, what do you think the response should be, if any? Or is it your position that we should just stay out of it completely and take a "not our problem" approach?

                    Nobody wants to commit American troops there, obviously, but short of sending troops there, it's pretty much sanctions or nothing, isn't it?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by umjewman View Post
                      Just out of curiosity, what do you think the response should be, if any? Or is it your position that we should just stay out of it completely and take a "not our problem" approach?

                      Nobody wants to commit American troops there, obviously, but short of sending troops there, it's pretty much sanctions or nothing, isn't it?
                      There are different levels of sanctioning, and I believe we (Canada and US) should take caution in sanctioning too harshly. Just echoing the political commentary guys I listen to, again not claiming any expertise here.

                      If the US hadn't pushed for Ukraine to join NATO, Putin wouldn't have been given the green light to invade. So we should accept that we bluffed, and we got taken.
                      Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Now that we've seen Russians take to the streets in protest and heard stories of low morale among Russian troops, what better way to drive that morale lower than by a concerted worldwide effort? Ban all Russian teams from international sporting events, including soccer. Companies should close every Russian location they have, even temporarily. Cut off all trade to Russia of any type of consumer good. Every major airline should cease all flights to Russia.

                        A few analysts have said no matter how it plays out militarily, this will end badly for Putin. He's completely underestimated the world mood for 1960s-style colonialism.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by umjewman View Post

                          Nobody wants to commit American troops there, obviously, but short of sending troops there, it's pretty much sanctions or nothing, isn't it?
                          "That's the tragedy of it - Ukraine is being hung out to dry because the West is not going to defend it" is what RHD stated a few posts above. This sure sounds like he believes we should send troops.
                          ---------------------------------------------
                          Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                          ---------------------------------------------
                          The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                          George Orwell, 1984

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                            "That's the tragedy of it - Ukraine is being hung out to dry because the West is not going to defend it" is what RHD stated a few posts above. This sure sounds like he believes we should send troops.
                            What does Johnny Dickshot think?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Seems like a good time to remind everyone that Trump's first impeachment, not the one where he committed sedition, because he illegally withheld $400 million, already allocated by Congress, because Ukraine would not interfere in our federal election by making up dirt on Joe Biden.

                              But of course, as shocking, illegal, and unpatriotic as that was - and it sure as hell was all three - that's not it with regards to TFG and Russia, now is it?

                              - Constantly praised Putin, including two days ago when he called his warmongering "genius".
                              - Called Putin a "strong leader" who "has done a great job outsmarting our country".
                              - Defended Putin when he was called a killer by saying "There are a lot of killers. Do you think our country is so innocent?"
                              - Praised Russia's annexation of Crimea by saying "The people of Crimea, from what I've heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were."
                              - Constantly attacking NATO and aligning with Putin instead.
                              - Shared highly classified intelligence with Russia almost immediately upon taking the Oval Office. Refused to allow US press to the meeting, instead allowing Russian state media.
                              - Refused to punish Russia after the SolarWinds hack.
                              - Took Putin's side over our own intelligence agencies in his infamous Helsinki appearance where he took just enough time away from sucking Vladmir Putin's dick for five minutes to announce that "I don't see any reason it would be Russia" with regards to the cyberattacks against our country.
                              - Thanked Putin when he expelled hundreds of US diplomats from Russia.
                              - Continued to praise Putin even after stories came out regarding Russia putting bounties on US soldiers.



                              Republicans: Wow, look at Biden's black eye on Russia.
                              More American children die by gunfire in a year than on-duty police officers and active duty military.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by umjewman View Post
                                What does Johnny Dickshot think?
                                why are you encouraging this?
                                I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

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