Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I have to say again how surreal I find the right's 180 on Russia and Putin. A recent poll indicates less than 10% of republicans have a favorable view of Biden, while 50% of Republicans have a favorable opinion of Russia and Putin. It is madness. Republicans have always been the most vocal decriers of communism in general and Russia in particular and now an ever-growing number of them are on team Russia, being led by people like Tucker Carlson. We might start seeing Russian flags along with confederate flags at pro-Trump rallies. We really are living in the upside down.

    Comment


    • #17
      I fear Putin's actions will just embolden him more, and China too. But in a world of nuclear powers, I really don't know what can or should be done besides continued sanctions if Russia continues its invasion of Ukraine or China does the same in Taiwan. And so many countries are so economically tied to Russia through its gas and China through manufacturing, I don't see those sanctions being meaningful enough to stop them.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
        Sorry. No offense intended. I don't know where I picked up putting the article before its name. I edited my previous post to remove it. What is happening there is tragic and while I have no family there, I feel for Ukrainians made to suffer by Russia's invasion. I can only imagine what it must feel like to be there having to deal with this.
        Not offended, many make the mistake as that's how it was referred to in Soviet times. Just trying to educate that it's preferred not to use "the". Thank you.

        I think Putin is aiming to take out the government and install a puppet regime like in Belarus. He will take out and "arrest" anyone he deems a threat to that. I imagine a brutal regime as they try to get the rest of the populace under their boots but it will be difficult. Most people in Ukraine who would have favored ties to Russia in the past have been pushed away with his actions in the past years. I just hope that whatever sanctions they impose will be strong enough. They really need to unleash as heavy a burden as they can on Russia and make them pay. Energy independence will help but that can't happen for a long long time unfortunately. Honestly as long as Russia exists, Ukraine will be in danger from them.

        Yeah I am being hyperbolic about the Hitler/Stalin thing but his mindset is not that different. He does not view Ukrainians as a real people and will certainly work to eradicate them at the least culturally if not physically. It is what happened during the Soviet era (and yes, genocide did happen back then) so it is not within the realm of possibility. I hope that the nations of the world won't allow things to get that far.

        Comment


        • #19
          A question for those more informed than I...Is it Putin's desire to rebuild the old soviet union, slowly regaining those countries it lost in 91?

          Also, why is a military response off the table? It seems that people believe sanctions will be effective, but it didn't stop them from annexing Crimea, nor installing a puppet regime in Belarus and now what's happening in Ukraine. I know the US has provided military aid, but if Ukraine asks for the actual US military to intervene, would it happen? Or any of the other Nations who are allies of Ukraine.

          In the end, this is going to be horribly sad for the people living there--
          If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

          Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
          Martin Luther King, Jr.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
            A question for those more informed than I...Is it Putin's desire to rebuild the old soviet union, slowly regaining those countries it lost in 91?

            Also, why is a military response off the table? It seems that people believe sanctions will be effective, but it didn't stop them from annexing Crimea, nor installing a puppet regime in Belarus and now what's happening in Ukraine. I know the US has provided military aid, but if Ukraine asks for the actual US military to intervene, would it happen? Or any of the other Nations who are allies of Ukraine.

            In the end, this is going to be horribly sad for the people living there--
            I don't think anyone, including the US, wants to engage in a head-on war with Russia, and Putin knows that, which is why he has acted so aggressively. But his aggression does not change that reality. The US has no stomach for putting troops in play, on the left or right. Instead, there will be continued sanctions, more outcry, and words written and said about how horrible this is and Russia is. I don't know how far Putin's ambitions reach, but it does seem clear, at least, he and Russia want a buffer of countries bordering them that they either completely control or have strong influence over.

            Comment


            • #21
              Why hasn't Ukraine been made a member of NATO? I have read that Ukraine has wanted to join NATO for several years now. And my understanding is that Putin would have been a lot less likely to order an attack on Ukraine if they were a member of NATO.
              “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

              ― Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                I am heartbroken about what is happening in Ukraine. I also don't see a solution. I felt the same when they took Crimea and part of the Donbas, and this is like that only moreso.

                As an aside, my parents and most of my extended family still refer to "the Ukraine". My ancestors emigrated from Prussia to the Molochna area of Ukraine in the 1700s when it was part of the Russian empire under Catherine the Great. And then they left Russia in the 1870s and immigrated to Canada and the United States. Many of my distant cousins who stayed behind in Ukraine were forcibly removed to Kazakstan or Siberia in the 1930s and 40s during collectivization of farms and purges of German-speaking people.
                "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by madducks View Post
                  Why hasn't Ukraine been made a member of NATO? I have read that Ukraine has wanted to join NATO for several years now. And my understanding is that Putin would have been a lot less likely to order an attack on Ukraine if they were a member of NATO.
                  I would say it's a combination of several things:
                  1. There is a concern that we couldn't actually defend Ukraine from a Russian invasion
                  2. We don't want to unnecessarily provoke Russia
                  3. Ukraine doesn't meet the NATO standards for democracy and the rule of law
                  4. There isn't a strong consensus that defending Ukraine from Russia is a core interest for the U.S. and Western Europe, i.e., worth dying for

                  Items 1 and 2 probably apply just as much to the three Baltic republics--Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania--but I think there is more of concern with them about how they were historically abused by both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and a sense that they were small and needed to be protected as a result of that history. The U.S. never recognized the incorporation of the Baltic republics into the Soviet Union, for example.

                  Georgia is in a similar position to Ukraine, but even harder for NATO to defend against Russia, especially with the potential unreliability of Turkey in the alliance.
                  Last edited by Kevin Seitzer; 02-24-2022, 02:03 PM.
                  "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by madducks View Post
                    Why hasn't Ukraine been made a member of NATO? I have read that Ukraine has wanted to join NATO for several years now. And my understanding is that Putin would have been a lot less likely to order an attack on Ukraine if they were a member of NATO.
                    For the reasons that Seitzer noted. Ukraine has always had strong ties to Russia (more like an abusive relationship with), including a puppet government before the events of 2014, so even if the people wanted closer ties to Europe, Russia always had a veto power over it. That's why they had the protests that led to the ouster of the puppet and Russia seized Crimea in retaliation. Ukraine had tried to make a trade agreement with Europe and Putin wasn't having any of that. Putin created an unstable situation with the "separatist" regions so that it would prevent them for applying for NATO membership. Georgia is in the same situation with two "separatist" regions of its own occupied by Russians.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Russian TV is now airing Trump's praise of Putin to justify their invasion.
                      More American children die by gunfire in a year than on-duty police officers and active duty military.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Ukrainian Ambassador to Russian Ambassador just now: "There is no purgatory for war criminals, Ambassador...they go straight to hell."
                        More American children die by gunfire in a year than on-duty police officers and active duty military.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I think this video pretty well describes the history leading up to this situation and the current state of affairs:



                          This is yet another huge foreign policy black eye for Biden, altho this disaster was mostly inherited from several past administrations.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rhd View Post
                            I think this video pretty well describes the history leading up to this situation and the current state of affairs:



                            This is yet another huge foreign policy black eye for Biden, altho this disaster was mostly inherited from several past administrations.
                            How is this a black eye for Biden ? What is he supposed to do about this? And what do you mean by "another" ?
                            ---------------------------------------------
                            Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
                            ---------------------------------------------
                            The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                            George Orwell, 1984

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View Post
                              I would say it's a combination of several things:
                              1. There is a concern that we couldn't actually defend Ukraine from a Russian invasion
                              2. We don't want to unnecessarily provoke Russia
                              3. Ukraine doesn't meet the NATO standards for democracy and the rule of law
                              4. There isn't a strong consensus that defending Ukraine from Russia is a core interest for the U.S. and Western Europe, i.e., worth dying for

                              Items 1 and 2 probably apply just as much to the three Baltic republics--Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania--but I think there is more of concern with them about how they were historically abused by both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and a sense that they were small and needed to be protected as a result of that history. The U.S. never recognized the incorporation of the Baltic republics into the Soviet Union, for example.

                              Georgia is in a similar position to Ukraine, but even harder for NATO to defend against Russia, especially with the potential unreliability of Turkey in the alliance.
                              Originally posted by ironfist View Post
                              For the reasons that Seitzer noted. Ukraine has always had strong ties to Russia (more like an abusive relationship with), including a puppet government before the events of 2014, so even if the people wanted closer ties to Europe, Russia always had a veto power over it. That's why they had the protests that led to the ouster of the puppet and Russia seized Crimea in retaliation. Ukraine had tried to make a trade agreement with Europe and Putin wasn't having any of that. Putin created an unstable situation with the "separatist" regions so that it would prevent them for applying for NATO membership. Georgia is in the same situation with two "separatist" regions of its own occupied by Russians.
                              Thanks.
                              “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

                              ― Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                                How is this a black eye for Biden ? What is he supposed to do about this? And what do you mean by "another" ?
                                I would assume he's referring to Afghanistan. Which was another systemic, multiple administration failure. Though Biden really could have handled the withdrawal a bit better.
                                If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                                Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                                Martin Luther King, Jr.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X