Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Bene Futuis]

What a fucking coward.

Jesus, kid. Calm your parts.

[Ken]

It's no dog-in-the-grocery-store, but it has a little spice

How bout now?

[Bene Futuis]

“The (Grand Old) Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

[Bene Futuis]

How bout now?

[Teenwolf]

Jesus, kid. Calm your parts.

Just like CBB, "I don't need to defend the things I say", while condescending and saying nothing of substance to the actual debate.

I know it's hard to come up with an original thought now that Maddow is off air, but I believe in you, champ.

[gcstomp]

Biden sanctions russia oil. Big woop de doo. Yes, pressure to slog the oil funded advance of the invasion is a net positive. However, It gives the big oil and gas companies cover to price gouge, at same time they are reporting record earning, record profits. U.S. gets some 1 or 2% from russia.

Some european countries are 50% all the way to 100% dependent on russian oil. Gas prices in italy, france, greece etc are topping $8 a gallon today. For those who say thanks Biden for the hike, tell them Biden is not president in europe, and they are paying double, DOUBLE, our prices, without the equal whiney rhetoric because they appreciate they are not huddled in a shelled residential building, holding their shaking dog, with no power or running water, and russian troops preventing you from fleeing safely to poland, where you hope against hope to just be reunited with you separated family.

[Bene Futuis]

I believe in you, champ.

Aww, thanks!

[The Feral Slasher]

How bout now?

Johnny Dickshot has left the building

[GwynnInTheHall]

All of a sudden I'm more concerned with Canadian aggression than the Russians...

[Gregg]

Make a point, for fuck sake.

I'm talking about Gregg repeating the bullshit of MSM saying we should attack Russia. I'm saying it's easy to see why people are so easily misled when MSM is such garbage. Either debate that or don't, but don't give me this condescending eye-rolling shit without a single word.

Enjoying your participation, but one point of clarification. I did not say we should attack Russia because of MSN. It was really a response to another poster. Behind that it comes from a lifetime of dealing with the issues that Russia brings to bully the world. It has not gotten better it has gotten worse. They have attacked another nation.

Saying this with a calm voice. Do you believe that Russia has the right to attack?

I would like to put an end to the current Russia, but not at the expense of nuclear war.

[Teenwolf]

Enjoying your participation, but one point of clarification. I did not say we should attack Russia because of MSN. It was really a response to another poster. Behind that it comes from a lifetime of dealing with the issues that Russia brings to bully the world. It has not gotten better it has gotten worse. They have attacked another nation.

Saying this with a calm voice. Do you believe that Russia has the right to attack?

I would like to put an end to the current Russia, but not at the expense of nuclear war.

Thanks, Gregg. I was trying to summarize the point of the video I posted, which is to say that the majority of Americans believe the US should "enforce a no-fly zone" over Ukraine. Most people don't understand that this is no small act, it means shooting down Russian jets and starting WWIII, possibly nuclear annihilation. If they understood the implications of a no-fly zone, they might feel differently. But it's hard to get to that conclusion when you have MSM putting military advisors on news shows to push for escalation, and dum-dum hosts asking why we aren't taking out Putin, why we aren't bombing planes, etc. We hear reports of the Russian military failures, pushing us to think "now is the time to attack". True or not, attacking means rolling the dice on nukes, and that should never be a choice any leader takes.

Do I believe Russia has the right to attack Ukraine? I'm anti-imperialist, so I don't think any country has that right. The clip I posted of the UN delegate for Kenya talking about how his country has dealt with the changing of borders, and it was awesome. I'll post it again here in case you missed it.

[GwynnInTheHall]

There is some very thoughtful opinions in this thread. It's not an easy subject to broach and find a definitive answer. There is an absolute risk of escalating the conflict if the US or any other nation goes beyond sanctions and/or Aid to Ukraine.

Putin rattles his saber to keep those who might actually stop his tyranny while actually using it to cut down the lives and liberty of those fighting for their existence. They fight for a democracy THEY want and have built and fostered and are doing it with minimal help from anyone else. Putin has already said sanctions are an act of war and yet, his Nukes remain sheathed as every nuke in the history of Soviet/Russian saber rattling has remained. I know US intervention has rarely turned out good, but in some instances it has.

At some point his bluff must be called. Do we run the risk of catastrophic loss? Absolutely. If we do nothing, Ukraine will be lost, it Govt overthrown and it's leaders killed. And no matter how costly the victory is to Putin, he will know that all he needs to do is threaten the West and we'll throw marshmallows at him.

Give them the Planes to engage the Russians, give them any and all military firepower to drive back the invasion. Continue and increase sanctions, but do everything short of ground troops to help these guys or we stand for nothing--nothing noble at least.

I really don't see Russia, China or the US ever using nukes as first strike weapons. I could be horribly wrong, but it's what I believe. I also believe there are things worth fighting and dying for outside of just me and mine. I'm only one voice, but I feel like this is a defining moment in the direction of this country. It certainly is for Ukraine. I wish we all could be as brave and honorable as Zelensky and help him beat back Putin, but I'm sadly aware that we will do little else to help him and Ukraine and they will go the way of Crimea, only worse.

It's all damn sad anyway you look at it.

[Teenwolf]

There is some very thoughtful opinions in this thread. It's not an easy subject to broach and find a definitive answer. There is an absolute risk of escalating the conflict if the US or any other nation goes beyond sanctions and/or Aid to Ukraine.

Putin rattles his saber to keep those who might actually stop his tyranny while actually using it to cut down the lives and liberty of those fighting for their existence. They fight for a democracy THEY want and have built and fostered and are doing it with minimal help from anyone else. Putin has already said sanctions are an act of war and yet, his Nukes remain sheathed as every nuke in the history of Soviet/Russian saber rattling has remained. I know US intervention has rarely turned out good, but in some instances it has.

At some point his bluff must be called. Do we run the risk of catastrophic loss? Absolutely. If we do nothing, Ukraine will be lost, it Govt overthrown and it's leaders killed. And no matter how costly the victory is to Putin, he will know that all he needs to do is threaten the West and we'll throw marshmallows at him.

Give them the Planes to engage the Russians, give them any and all military firepower to drive back the invasion. Continue and increase sanctions, but do everything short of ground troops to help these guys or we stand for nothing--nothing noble at least.

I really don't see Russia, China or the US ever using nukes as first strike weapons. I could be horribly wrong, but it's what I believe. I also believe there are things worth fighting and dying for outside of just me and mine. I'm only one voice, but I feel like this is a defining moment in the direction of this country. It certainly is for Ukraine. I wish we all could be as brave and honorable as Zelensky and help him beat back Putin, but I'm sadly aware that we will do little else to help him and Ukraine and they will go the way of Crimea, only worse.

It's all damn sad anyway you look at it.

One truth among all the blustering.

US supports and arms 73% of dictatorships currently, so I guess arming the Azov Battallion in Ukraine would be fitting (nazis). War in Yemen, war in Iraq, war in Somalia, Afghanistan currently starving due to US sanctions.

It's white lives that matter. Even if we have to arm the nazis, protecting white lives is so much more important than Black or Muslim lives. That's what North America represents to the world, in the context of this and all other conflicts. That's the saddest and most fucked up part of all of this. Seeing our complicity so clearly.

BTW, Joy Reid, whom I despise, had a good piece about this yesterday.

[Gregg]

One truth among all the blustering.

US supports and arms 73% of dictatorships currently, so I guess arming the Azov Battallion in Ukraine would be fitting (nazis). War in Yemen, war in Iraq, war in Somalia, Afghanistan currently starving due to US sanctions.

It's white lives that matter. Even if we have to arm the nazis, protecting white lives is so much more important than Black or Muslim lives. That's what North America represents to the world, in the context of this and all other conflicts. That's the saddest and most fucked up part of all of this. Seeing our complicity so clearly.

BTW, Joy Reid, whom I despise, had a good piece about this yesterday.

USAID-Bureau for Africa that donated 8.5 billion dollars in fiscal 2020 might disagree with you on lives that matter.

[gcstomp]

Pres. Zelensky certainly has seen his stock rise. Standing o by UK parliament with quite the Churchill esque speech. Who is Zelensky? https://jewishunpacked.com/who-is-vo...nt-of-ukraine/

"Let’s be clear about this: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is Jewish and has zero ties to any neo-Nazi movement. In fact members of his family were murdered during the Holocaust and others fought in the Red Army against Nazis."

How can we reconcile this with existence of Azov, the all volunteer, near 1k member unit of Ukraine national guard? Well we are talking about a unit that is about 1/2 of 1% of Ukraine military in membership, and who of course by legislation will not recive any U.S. aid. To put in context, How many QAnon will be running for congress in U.S. next cycle, how many are in our current government? I dearly wished it was less than one half of one percent. To be clear, russia, and putin are the bad guys. The ukraine civilians getting bombed are the ones who should be supported. Thankfully there is near universal agreement on this one.