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The 'great resignation' & 'quiet quitting'

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  • The 'great resignation' & 'quiet quitting'

    Media has pushed different narratives over the past year. As the economy came back after Covid, we see a lot of businesses that simply cannot find workers for low-paying jobs. My favourite donut shop has 1 extra day per week closed, due to staff shortages. Many other businesses are doing the same. Hospitals have also been severely short-staffed as workers experienced significant burnout.

    About a year ago, we started hearing of the 'great resignation', which means that a large wave of people have chosen to retire early, or switch to a new career. I've heard it referred to in the media many times as "nobody wants to work anymore".

    Conditions are worse than ever, with rent across both of our countries exploding, and inflation and corporate price-gouging rampant and uncontrolled, the homeless population has also exploded.

    What's going on? I see the corporate slogan 'nobody wants to work anymore' as an excuse for a failed economy. People are no longer willing to work in jobs that don't pay a living wage, and that category of work expands every day, given the aforementioned rents and living expenses.

    The new trending term, 'quiet quitting', resonates more with me. It's meant to describe workers who are no longer willing to go above and beyond the expectations of their job. It's meant to be pejorative, but I view it the other way.

    My dad used to explain corporate pushes for endless productivity through his job at a lumber mill. Managers set an unrealistically high goal, in this case, 400K board feet per shift. He said guys would work like crazy, put themselves in danger, and when they eventually reach the goal, management simply moves the markers down field. "Okay, the new goal is 420K board feet!" Effort is rarely or never rewarded.

    I've seen much the same through my working life. But now that quality workers are harder than ever to find and keep, employers need to step up with better incentives. I was just offered a free, paid holiday day at my work. My whole company is getting this bonus day, something I've never witnessed.

    I'm also approaching my work differently. I'm holding myself to slightly lower expectations for productivity, as I look for survival tactics for working outdoors through the neverending heat waves. I choose lower impact work more often, as I'm about to turn 40, and find my gas tank is smaller, so the need to conserve energy is greater.

    Just wondering what others have experienced and how you're all approaching work after the pandemic.
    Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

  • #2
    In the industry I cover, salaries, benefits and job opportunities are at an all-time high...there's rampant poaching and job switching as companies struggle to meet increased post-COVID demand (they already struggled to hire and retain talent pre-COVID). These are both skilled office and skilled but labor-intensive positions.

    I received an unsolicited job offer myself in a related industry and leveraged it to increase my salary and benefits at my current position.

    In the end, from what ive seen, the so-called great resignation and these people you describe who are striving to do the bare minimum are creating a pretty nice environment for those who strive to achieve. Anyone who wants a job can find a good one, and anyone who has a stable position/stature in a particular industry can leverage that to their advantage. And many companies are rewarding those people so they will be retained.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Pauly View Post
      In the end, from what ive seen, the so-called great resignation and these people you describe who are striving to do the bare minimum are creating a pretty nice environment for those who strive to achieve.
      I agree, those that put in more than what is expected are now being rewarded more than in the past because the attitude is so poor for the overwhelming majority. So, thanks slackers

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      • #4
        I've tried explaining the living wage thing to my dad. What's the point of working if it doesn't pay enough to live your own life? If you can't afford to move out of our parent's basement, you might as well sit around and play video games. Working at McD's isn't going to give you the work experience to get ahead. My grandfather started out in a government job without college in the typing pool back before WWII and retired as a GS 15 (topped out). I don't think he could get above a 7 now without a degree. However if school loans are so expensive that you'll never get out from under them, how do you get a higher education? My dad says, "it's not fair to the people that have come before" but I counter with, if it's broken, that's no reason to keep on doing it.

        I had a different conversation with my wife. I wouldn't say I'm quiet quitting, but I'm not nearly as traditionally ambitious as she is with our jobs. I told her, I'm 55, I'll retire in 10 years or so and be dead 10 years after that. I do my job well, but I'm over killing myself for it. Fortunately my company is trying to be more supportive of that. There's a bit work-life balance push these days. We got 2 extra holidays added this year, Juneteenth and a floater (I guess for people that were going to take offense to celebrating juneteenth?) All my managers up the line are very supportive of working to live and not the opposite. Hopefully this is the trend going forward.
        I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

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        • #5
          In my industry it is traditional to work all sorts of crazy hours, and divorce and burnout are rampant for people who stay around for a long time. I tell my employees that I want them to grow and learn and do good work and have a healthy life over the long term, including a family if they want. I tell them that this requires taking some time off to get away from work as well as taking time at work to get off the hamster wheel and work on and think about things that may not create immediate productivity but will help you grow in the long term. In my view, my people are as productive if not more so than those who expect their people to work every waking hour.

          Yes, sometimes you need to go above and beyond and work long hours on a particular project or at a particular time point, but those times should be chosen for their impact, not as a regular 24x7 experience.

          I believe that even a little effort in this direction by employers goes a long way toward employee satisfaction and loyalty.
          "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View Post
            In my industry it is traditional to work all sorts of crazy hours, and divorce and burnout are rampant for people who stay around for a long time. I tell my employees that I want them to grow and learn and do good work and have a healthy life over the long term, including a family if they want. I tell them that this requires taking some time off to get away from work as well as taking time at work to get off the hamster wheel and work on and think about things that may not create immediate productivity but will help you grow in the long term. In my view, my people are as productive if not more so than those who expect their people to work every waking hour.

            Yes, sometimes you need to go above and beyond and work long hours on a particular project or at a particular time point, but those times should be chosen for their impact, not as a regular 24x7 experience.

            I believe that even a little effort in this direction by employers goes a long way toward employee satisfaction and loyalty.
            That's just really good people management, and everything you stated here was true both before and during/after the "great resignation"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by heyelander View Post
              I've tried explaining the living wage thing to my dad. What's the point of working if it doesn't pay enough to live your own life? If you can't afford to move out of our parent's basement, you might as well sit around and play video games. Working at McD's isn't going to give you the work experience to get ahead.
              If the expectation is that a skills-deficient, 17-21 year old, with no work experience, and no 2 or 4 year degree or military service deserves to get paid enough to move out of their parent's basement, I'd argue that's an unrealistic expectation.

              Per Mickey D's, that's a potentially interesting discussion. My data base is limited, but my son worked at a local McD's in high school and early college; he had a good friend who actually did make it a career. He's just became a store manager in the suburban Milwaukee area pulling about $50k/year plus potential store bonuses after three years of part-time work followed by seven years of full-time work and passing a series of McD's training classes. So he's in his late-20s, no debt, and probably will make $55k-ish this coming year, plus benefits. And he has promotion opportunity to operations leadership over the next 5-10 years, and depending on how far he goes, that'll push his salary into the mid-60k range with upside over 100k.

              My grandfather started out in a government job without college in the typing pool back before WWII and retired as a GS 15 (topped out). I don't think he could get above a 7 now without a degree. However if school loans are so expensive that you'll never get out from under them, how do you get a higher education?
              Your note about being unable to get above a 7 without a degree today is correct. However, you're asking the wrong question. The correct question is why an individual, other than for highly specialized work, needs a college degree after they have enough experience to have reached GS-7. Again, I'd venture to say that in most applications, a college degree is wholly or mostly valueless for the skills needed to do GS-8 to GS-12 level work. So why is a college degree required for most GS-8 and beyond positions?
              I'm just here for the baseball.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by chancellor View Post
                Your note about being unable to get above a 7 without a degree today is correct. However, you're asking the wrong question. The correct question is why an individual, other than for highly specialized work, needs a college degree after they have enough experience to have reached GS-7. Again, I'd venture to say that in most applications, a college degree is wholly or mostly valueless for the skills needed to do GS-8 to GS-12 level work. So why is a college degree required for most GS-8 and beyond positions?
                Of the people who have worked for me, most have had a bachelor's degree, a few a master's or PhD. But the employee who has been most valuable and is best at picking up new technical skills doesn't have a college degree at all. I expect most applicants for technical positions will have a college degree, but I've backed off from making that a requirement, largely because of my experience with that employee.
                "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

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                • #9
                  I've been fortunate in my career to work with many, many highly skilled individuals that for one reason or another, do not have college degrees.
                  I'm just here for the baseball.

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                  • #10
                    Is it considered "quiet quitting" if you tell your boss to go F himself and then take a dump on his desk on the way out?

                    Asking for a friend.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by umjewman View Post
                      Is it considered "quiet quitting" if you tell your boss to go F himself and then take a dump on his desk on the way out?

                      Asking for a friend.
                      No, that's reeking resignation

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chancellor View Post
                        If the expectation is that a skills-deficient, 17-21 year old, with no work experience, and no 2 or 4 year degree or military service deserves to get paid enough to move out of their parent's basement, I'd argue that's an unrealistic expectation.
                        I think the issue is that it is much more difficult for young people to become financially able to move out on their own than it was 50 years ago. Over half of 18-29 year olds now live with a parent or parents, it was once as low as 30 percent
                        ---------------------------------------------
                        Champagne for breakfast and a Sherman in my hand !
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                        The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
                        George Orwell, 1984

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by chancellor View Post
                          If the expectation is that a skills-deficient, 17-21 year old, with no work experience, and no 2 or 4 year degree or military service deserves to get paid enough to move out of their parent's basement, I'd argue that's an unrealistic expectation.
                          Fair enough, but then why do the work? "people don't want to work" is bullshit. For the most part, no one wants to work! That's why they call it work, and why they pay you to do it. I really don't want to work, but my company gives me enough compensation to make it worth my time. If the difference between me working and not working is negligible, then not working sounds better. McD's was probably a bad choice, as they do have promotion opportunities (although for how much of their staff?) What about the independent corner place here that has signs lamenting their short staff and "no one wants to work!" BS. There's no promotion opportunities there. You're running a failed business model that can't keep up with supply and demand for workers.

                          I agree on job requirements, but that's a business issue too. I saw a tweet from a guy posting a job listing and saying he couldn't apply for the job because it required 5 years of experience with a computer language he invented 2 years ago. "Entry level" jobs regularly ask for an advanced degree and 2 years of experience. The reason why an individual needs a college degree to get the job, is because the company expects it and the job posting requires it.
                          I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post
                            I think the issue is that it is much more difficult for young people to become financially able to move out on their own than it was 50 years ago. Over half of 18-29 year olds now live with a parent or parents, it was once as low as 30 percent
                            You could raise a family on 1 blue collar salary then. That's not possible now. We want to return to the good old days in so many ways, but not one where people can actually make a life for themselves.

                            Is 10k in student debt forgiveness going to solve it? Hardly. Is mandating a $15 minimum wage? Not on it's own.

                            Is sitting around complaining that no one wants to work and nothing else? NO!
                            I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by heyelander View Post

                              Is sitting around complaining that no one wants to work and nothing else? NO!
                              I dunno, man. Sitting around complaining is a pretty good time.

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