Do you have people in your life that have wronged you.....

[Steve 2.0]

....that you just can't bring yourself to forgive?

I know I should forgive them.....but I just can not.

[revo]

A couple of instances come to mind. Nothing really major, but PO'd me at the time, and still don't forgive them for it:

1 - a really close friend growing up, who I've kind of lost touch with over the years. About 15 years ago, he calls me out of nowhere saying he needed $350 or he was going to get evicted, could I help him out. He promised - PROMISED - he would pay me back ASAP. This was pre-Venmo, so I had to find a Western Union to send it to him, which was a royal pain in the ass and added another $50. My wife was pissed, saying wasn't there anyone else? Why us? I felt like I had to send it to him, I've known the guy since I was in 1st Grade. 15 years later, I'm still waiting for him to repay me. Do I need the money? Of course not, but that's not the point. I helped him out when he was in dire straits and he forgot all about it.

2 - Also around 15-18 yrs ago, a wealthy friend of mine who I had worked with before invited the wife and I to dinner at his house in ritzy Darien, CT. Well, turns out they didn't have dinner ready, so they said, hey, let's go out. OK, fine. He chooses the restaurant, which was very pricey (natch), orders bottles of wine, and then the bill comes and he says, OK, that's $600 apiece. I thought my head was going to explode I was so angry. Again, did $600 kill me? No, but I had ZERO PLANS to spend $600 on dinner that night (which was, and still is, the most I've ever spent on a single dinner out), he invited us over, he had nothing ready, he chose the restaurant, and quite frankly, given all that, he should have footed the bill. I was doing pretty well financially, but this guy was in another league and it was extraordinarily rude. I didn't speak to the guy for years after that.

[GwynnInTheHall]

....that you just can't bring yourself to forgive?

I know I should forgive them.....but I just can not.

More than I care to mention...I will always be civil, but I'll never forget--which to me is the same as never forgiving.

[chancellor]

More than I care to mention...I will always be civil, but I'll never forget--which to me is the same as never forgiving.

Interesting perspective - I guess I don't think it's possible for a normal human to actually forget, while still forgiving them. For example, I have a friend who did something very similar to what revo described relative to money. After I helped him out, he had a really good ten year run, and never paid me back. Both he and his wife had serious health setbacks, lost their jobs, and were caring for his elderly mom and a child who's severly ADHD. He approached me about six years ago for money to keep his mom in her apartment. So, yeah, I didn't forget - I knew I'd never see the money again, and I made sure it went to his mom's rent, but I did help him out.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Interesting perspective - I guess I don't think it's possible for a normal human to actually forget, while still forgiving them. For example, I have a friend who did something very similar to what revo described relative to money. After I helped him out, he had a really good ten year run, and never paid me back. Both he and his wife had serious health setbacks, lost their jobs, and were caring for his elderly mom and a child who's severly ADHD. He approached me about six years ago for money to keep his mom in her apartment. So, yeah, I didn't forget - I knew I'd never see the money again, and I made sure it went to his mom's rent, but I did help him out.

It might be odd, but I've never and will never get bent over money or possession. Possibly because I've never made much of either. I've also worked in an industry where borrowing money is commonplace and getting stiffed is as well. Same goes for things, you steal my stuff-I usually can replace it so--no big deal. I may not trust you if you borrow or steal from me, but to me those are small transgressions. It's the betrayal of trust between friends, significant others and family that I relate to Steve's original wronged-can't forgive question. I can't ever regain trust after someone close to me has, from my perspective, betrayed that trust. I will always be civil in person, unless the other in question is aggressive and escalates things-then all bets are off--fortunately--that's never happened.

I understand that Money lent, and not payed back is significant to some and I can respect that, it's just not a thing to me--at all.

[madducks]

I've removed those people from my life. Don't worry, they're still alive lol.

[Kevin Seitzer]

....that you just can't bring yourself to forgive?

I know I should forgive them.....but I just can not.

Yes. And I would actually like to forgive them, because I don't want to give them any more emotional space in my head. The pain isn't as raw as it once was, but I don't think I can say that I've forgiven. I wish I could, but it's not as simple as just wishing I could or choosing it once and having it done.

[johnnya24]

Ex's don't count right?

I've never really thought of this, and to be honest I can't think of anyone in particular.

That said I've cut-off and ghosted a lot of people over the years.

Like one guy I worked with was in bad shape financially ... too many kids, not enough income, and another kid on the way. Kept borrowing money ... knew i wasn't getting this back ... just cut him off to stop him asking.

I'm really bad at staying in touch with people. But I don't hold grudges, life's too short (or maybe i just don't care enough?).

[Steve 2.0]

With me it's my parents.

My dad committed suicide in the mid 1980's. I can't bring my self to forgive him.

My mom attempted suicide a few years later. She's been a mess ever since (and was before). It's hard to have compassion for someone you never heard a compassionate word from....not just me.....for anyone. I still have to interact with her every 3 weeks and I absolutely hate it.

[Steve 2.0]

Yes. And I would actually like to forgive them, because I don't want to give them any more emotional space in my head. The pain isn't as raw as it once was, but I don't think I can say that I've forgiven. I wish I could, but it's not as simple as just wishing I could or choosing it once and having it done.

This. So much this.

[GwynnInTheHall]

With me it's my parents.

My dad committed suicide in the mid 1980's. I can't bring my self to forgive him.

My mom attempted suicide a few years later. She's been a mess ever since (and was before). It's hard to have compassion for someone you never heard a compassionate word from....not just me.....for anyone. I still have to interact with her every 3 weeks and I absolutely hate it.

Excuse my language, but that's f*cking horrible for someone to have to deal with.

I've said it many times before, some people just shouldn't be parents--including mine.

Parental betrayal is one of the greatest traumas an individual can experience. I hope you have found your way through it in one piece, I struggled for decades and still today, can find myself triggered because of my own experience, so I can imagine somewhat, how it must be like with a constant reminder of it all.

I lost both my parents when I was 17.

Dad died of a heart attack early in my senior year, though he'd never really been there having bailed when I was almost 2. Mom of course told us he was dead, killed in Vietnam, and I didn't know better until he showed up one day when I was 13. He was in and out (mostly out) of my life until he died a few years later.

Mom was one of those people who never wanted to be a parent and so we spent most our youth being shuttled between my mom, whomever her new partner was and my grandmother (who essentially raised us). I moved more than 20 times before I graduated HS. Then the day of my HS Graduation, my mother packed up and left for good. I knew something was up, I don't know why, so after everyone was at the school, I drove to the house to make sure my mom had a ticket to get in. I noticed her suitcase behind the front door and then waiting in my car down the street as I watched her pack and then drive away. I followed her, pulled alongside her on the freeway and honked--when she looked over, I just stared and pointed at her as if to say--I know what you're doing--then I turned the car around and went to graduate, as a bonus, I got to tell my little brother and sister plus grandma, that mom was gone and not coming back. We wouldn't hear from her for over 10 years, then again nothing until years later when I got a call telling me they found her unresponsive, and she was in the hospital dying. I was pretty much the only one who watched as it took months for her to melt into nothingness.

I can say I forgave her, but I'll never forget.

Like I said--Mostly Family, Friends and Relationships and for more than I care to mention.

I hope you have found/find some peace--Brian

[Steve 2.0]

Excuse my language, but that's f*cking horrible for someone to have to deal with.

I've sad it many times before, some people just shouldn't be parents--including mine.

Parental betrayal is one of the greatest traumas an individual can experience. I hope you have found your way through it in one piece, I struggled for decades and still today, can find myself triggered because of my own experience, so I can imagine somewhat, how it must be like with a constant reminder of it all.

I lost both my parents when I was 17.

Dad died of a heart attack early in my senior year, though he'd never really been there having bailed when I was almost 2. Mom of course told us he was dead, killed in Vietnam, and I didn't know better until he showed up one day when I was 13. He was in and out (mostly out) of my life until he died a few years later.

Mom was one of those people who never wanted to be a parent and so we spent most our youth being shuttled between my mom, whomever her new partner was and my grandmother (who essentially raised us). I moved more than 20 times before I graduated HS. Then the day of my HS Graduation, my mother packed up and left for good. I knew something was up, I don't know why, so after everyone was at the school, I drove to the house to make sure my mom had a ticket to get in. I noticed her suitcase behind the front door and then waiting in my car down the street as I watched her pack and then drive away. I followed her, pulled alongside her on the freeway and honked--when she looked over, I just stared and pointed at her as if to say--I know what you're doing--then I turned the car around and went to graduate, as a bonus, I got to tell my little brother and sister plus grandma, that mom was gone and not coming back. We wouldn't hear from her for over 10 years, then again nothing until years later when I got a call telling me they found her unresponsive, and she was in the hospital dying. I was pretty much the only one who watched as it took months for her to melt into nothingness.

I can say I forgave her, but I'll never forget.

Like I said--Mostly Family, Friends and Relationships and for more than I care to mention.

I hope you have found/find some peace--Brian

When mom made her attempt I was talking to her counselor about other things (oh....forgot to mention I FOUND my Dad's body) and she turned to me and said "Are you OKAY?" I guess I am.

Thank you for the well wishes, Brian. And back at you.

[Sour Masher]

With me it's my parents.

My dad committed suicide in the mid 1980's. I can't bring my self to forgive him.

My mom attempted suicide a few years later. She's been a mess ever since (and was before). It's hard to have compassion for someone you never heard a compassionate word from....not just me.....for anyone. I still have to interact with her every 3 weeks and I absolutely hate it.

I can empathize with having a mom you do not enjoy being in your life, but not being able to completely cut out. My mom is the only person that I carry that sort of unforgiveness with on the regular, although others have certainly done me wrong. My mom has pretended to attempt suicide more times than I can count. She has also pretended to have various forms of cancer, tumors, auto-immune diseases, etc. It took me far too long to realize what she really had was Munchausen's/ Her faking illness for attention has cost me a lot over the years. She does it a lot when other people are getting attention. She pretended she was ill for my high school graduation, BA, MA, and PhD. She was never there, even when accommodations were offered. She was abusive when I was younger, but never being there when it counted stands out the most. I missed the bus in high school once the day of my IB exams (to this day, I am not certain if the power went out for she cut it, because she did not want me to go away to college). She refused to take me to school, so I had to take two buses to my far away magnet school. I missed my first test, which cost me the IB diploma and a scholarship I would have gotten with it. She also cost me a letter grade for a missed final in college when she swore she had a brain tumor and was dying and I drove 8 hours round trip to see her scans only to find out it was a minor brain lesion and she just wanted me back from college. Another time, I remember she finally took me to get glasses and she told me the whole way there that I was lucky, because her eyes were so much worse. When the eye doctor gave me a script that was worse than hers, she was so mad at me for upstaging her bad eyes, she said she had it worse, because she had an astigmatism. I didn't put it together at the time, but she flipped out that night, breaking my stuff, telling me I cost her money in needing glasses, and I was a drain and I should move out. I was in 6th grade. It was always a competition like that--if anyone was every sick, her first response was she was sicker. The time I finally told her I was sexually abused by one of her husbands, only to prove to her it could happen without a parent knowing (she was mad at my grandmother for not doing anything about her abuse), her first response was disbelief, and her second was finding out the extent and then saying I was lucky it wasn't as bad as she had. The latest example was my sister's boyfriend losing a testicle to cancer and going through many hard rounds of chemo for stage three cancer and her telling me bad things happen to bad people and he was lucky, because she had stage four cancer. She kept this up with him and for 6 months till she said it was a doctor error and she never had cancer, meanwhile, posting on FB to her religious online "friends" (she has no real life ones) that she was cured of stage four cancer by God.

When my grandmother was dying, I flew down to see her and my sister and I begged her to visit her to say goodbye. She refused saying she could not handle it. My grandmother was abusive to her in childhood, but she used and manipulated her my entire life, leveraging the guilt for the rest of her life. When she realized she was at the end and had nothing left to give her, she abandoned her, but still posted on FB about her loss, pretending she cared. She did the same with me, telling people she helped me with college, which was not true. The only thing I ever got from her after the age of 16 was she sold me her 1982 Toyota Supra for slightly under book value, and that didn't work out well for me as it didn't have working locks and was stolen and vandalized (found burnt in an empty lot), most likely by one of her ex-con ex-boyfriends three months after I bought it.

But many times, throughout the years, I tried to forgive. I have tried to allow her to be a grandmother, but she is obsessed with my sister's oldest and ignores her other grandkids. She occasionally sends them a gift for xmas (usually late, probably using some of the money I send her), but forgets their names and refused to get vaccinated to see them over the last couple of years. My sister has cut her off completely and she misses her granddaughter terribly. She lives alone in a one room rental and once in awhile, guilt makes me call her, but it is always the same--she tries to get me to get my sister to let her see her granddaughter, she bad mouths my sister, and she makes up a new story about what she is dying of, forgetting the last one she told me. I really do think I could have forgiveness it all, if she would have just changed at some point, but she never did, not for the better. She just gets worse and worse. I still call her and send her birthday and xmas money, but I can never trust her and it very emotionally draining for me to interact with her. So, I carry enough unforgiveness for my mom that I don't really have room for anymore. I don't carry anger for anyone else that I keep in my life--I get pissed sometimes for a minute or two, but let it go very quickly, shrug, and move on--few have ever topped my mom, so it is all small potatoes. I forgive easily if I see an effort to reconcile and change. If I don't, I don't see much point in keeping those people in my life, if they are not blood, and I don't have many blood relations left--just my sister and her family and my mom, and of course my kids, who are everything to me. The part I can help being thankful for with my mom is that if she didn't have me, I wouldn't have had them, and they are the best. The world is a better place with them in it.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Man, this group has been through some shit.

[Steve 2.0]

Man, this group has been through some shit.

Indeed.