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A question about selling tickets..

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  • #1

    A question about selling tickets..

    Local organization sells a $5 ticket that plays on the PA Daily Number. They sell 1000. The payout for the winner is $3500. So the organization makes $1500.

    Would it be a good or bad idea to not sell 20 tickets and if one of those 20 hit then the organization would make the entire amount of $4900($5000- $100 for tix they didn't sell). But if one of those 20 didn't hit, then the organization would make $1400 instead of $1500, losing the $100 income by not selling the 20 tickets.

    Is it a wise gamble to take the chance on making an extra $3500 and lose the extra $100.

    So to sum up:

    1. Sell all 1000 tickets and make a guaranteed $1500

    2. Sell 980 tickets and make a guaranteed $1400 but have the chance to make $4900.

    I am no stat genius so i don't really know how to figure out if this is a good idea or not?

    Thoughts?
    "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."
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  • #2
    I think many would feel it is "a fix" if the organization won. It would hurt you on future projects/contests.

    Why not have 10 people in your group buy the tickets personally with the idea that if they win they dontate the whole amount?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Gregg View Post
      I think many would feel it is "a fix" if the organization won. It would hurt you on future projects/contests.

      Why not have 10 people in your group buy the tickets personally with the idea that if they win they dontate the whole amount?
      The thought about the "fix" crossed my mind, but how could there be a fix when the number plays on the PA Daily number? If someone buys a ticket they have the same chance, 1/1000, no matter what happens to the other tickets. If you buy a ticket and don't win, why would you care who won?

      Although i do know what you mean and there would probably be people who think this. Even though it really makes no sense when you think about it.
      "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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      • #4
        you care more about the perception than the reality and if you plan on doing these types of fundraisers in the future, I would advise against it. Although it is a pretty sound strategy. I like Greggs suggestion.
        Last edited by Hammer; 04-21-2014, 10:20 AM.
        After former Broncos quarterback Brian Griese sprained his ankle and said he was tripped on the stairs of his home by his golden retriever, Bella: “The dog stood up on his hind legs and gave him a push? You might want to get rid of that dog, or put him in the circus, one of the two.”

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        • #5
          Bad idea. Having an organization with a vested interest in winning will, at a minimum, lead to questions that will likely hurt sales in the future. Take the $1500 per sale and run everything highly above board.
          I'm just here for the baseball.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by chancellor View Post
            Bad idea. Having an organization with a vested interest in winning will, at a minimum, lead to questions that will likely hurt sales in the future. Take the $1500 per sale and run everything highly above board.
            I know this is the right thing to do perception-wise, given that perception is reality.

            But what is not above the board in holding back some tickets? It's not like the organization isn't paying the winner. And usually the winner does not want his/her name mentioned as the winner.

            Reality = nothing wrong with it

            Perception = might be something fishy

            So better safe than sorry!

            Thanks guys.

            But is it a smart idea percentage wise, leaving out the ethical part of it??
            "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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            • #7
              I'm guessing there is some law that governs unsold tickets in pools such as this. Sounds like it's for profit and not for charity. That may change things also.

              I'd make sure you're on the right side of the law before you press ahead, even with Gregg's suggestion. Most competitions here state that no-one connected with the organisation (employee or relation) can even take part let alone win.

              Common sense would dictate that unsold tickets are void, and that no employee / stake holder or relation of an employee / stake holder can take part. Selling tickets to people who would then give any winnings back to the organisation is probably fraud. If it's not, it seems like it should be ... especially if it's for-profit.
              Last edited by johnnya24; 04-21-2014, 11:27 AM.

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              • #8
                hell, I'd make sure it's legal even without that. This used to be called "the numbers game" when bookies ran it. Usually you're not allowed to run your own lottery piggybacking on the real one. Maybe there's a loophole for charity in your state (or in mine for all I know) but you should find out.

                By the numbers:

                sell all tickets: 100% chance of $1500
                sell all but 20 tickets: 98% chance of $1400 + 2% chance of $4900 = $1372 + $98 = $1470

                if you want variance for some reason, of course, that could add some value to the second plan, but on the face of it it should be obvious that if you're already holding back $1500 of value, the tickets are negative EV, so keeping them for yourself is probably a bad idea.
                In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by johnnya24 View Post
                  I'm guessing there is some law that governs unsold tickets in pools such as this. Sounds like it's for profit and not for charity. That may change things also.

                  I'd make sure you're on the right side of the law before you press ahead, even with Gregg's suggestion. Most competitions here state that no-one connected with the organisation (employee or relation) can even take part let alone win.

                  Common sense would dictate that unsold tickets are void, and that no employee / stake holder or relation of an employee / stake holder can take part. Selling tickets to people who would then give any winnings back to the organisation is probably fraud. If it's not, it seems like it should be ... especially if it's for-profit.
                  I think the selling of tickets like this is a regional thing. Every organization sells these types of tickets..and i mean EVERY organization! A few organizations sell tickets that cost $100 for an $85,000 payout. All strictly non taxable
                  "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

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                  • #10
                    One of the VP's in Penn Gaming was in my fantasy baseball league in college

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Moonlight J View Post
                      One of the VP's in Penn Gaming was in my fantasy baseball league in college
                      s
                      I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mithrandir View Post
                        I think the selling of tickets like this is a regional thing. Every organization sells these types of tickets..and i mean EVERY organization! A few organizations sell tickets that cost $100 for an $85,000 payout. All strictly non taxable

                        Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it is legal. Back in the early '90s, tons of charity organizations in Texas held "Casino Night" fundraisers, where people paid X dollars, played casino games all night, and then purchased nifty prices at an auction, using their "winnings". Unfortunately for the charities, a Chief of Police asked me (a lowly Assistant City Attorney) if it was legal. Of course, it wasn't legal, clearly being gambling under Texas law. People went nuts, but the Attorney General agreed with me, and Casino Nights became a thing of the past. It was shortly afterwards that I returned to Arkansas. The point is that charities can violate the laws with their fundraising, but until somebody asks the nasty question, nobody cares. But that doesn't make it legal.

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                        • #13
                          Interesting. Also, as to my question above, 901.753(3) states that you can use state lottery numbers as long as you sell as many tickets as there are possible winning numbers, so if it's a pick-3 and you don't sell all 1000 tickets, you need another way to choose a winner.
                          In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mjl View Post
                            hell, I'd make sure it's legal even without that. This used to be called "the numbers game" when bookies ran it. Usually you're not allowed to run your own lottery piggybacking on the real one. Maybe there's a loophole for charity in your state (or in mine for all I know) but you should find out.

                            By the numbers:

                            sell all tickets: 100% chance of $1500
                            sell all but 20 tickets: 98% chance of $1400 + 2% chance of $4900 = $1372 + $98 = $1470

                            if you want variance for some reason, of course, that could add some value to the second plan, but on the face of it it should be obvious that if you're already holding back $1500 of value, the tickets are negative EV, so keeping them for yourself is probably a bad idea.
                            Your math and logic are obviously correct, but another possibility occurred to me. If they are having trouble selling all 1000 tickets on a regular basis, they could spice things up by holding back a portion of the tickets and rolling over the pot to the next week if nobody wins one week. This seems to work well for the lottery itself.*

                            *None of the above should be construed as legal advice.
                            "Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"

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                            • #15
                              I never claimed any of this is legal by PA law. It is just done.
                              "I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."

                              Comment

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