Verizon Customer?

[The Feral Slasher]

He already has an asshole reputation - he should try to be above the fray. If you're in the mud with Peter King, then you deserve what you get.

Gosh, Snowden is a narcissist and Greenwald is an asshole. I think I'll side with Obama he's such a nice family man.

[The Feral Slasher]

Good article. I hope that the credentials and thoroughness of a writer like Kurt Eichenwald will help quell the hysteria.

Serious question - we've had congressmen, Senators, and former NSA employees all warning us that we should be concerned, yet you obviously think there is nothing to worry about. Is this because you think they are overzealous in protecting privacy, they are exaggerating, you think safeguards are in place ? Why have you not advocated for additional government disclosures but rather focused on quelling the hysteria ?

[The Feral Slasher]

This absolutely should be investigated. If it turns out Clapper & crew were lying outright, then yes, heads should roll. One has to wonder why the committee who questioned him has let him skate, to date, since we all know they were briefed about this program.

Wonder no more. Of course Obama has already issued his strong support for Clapper and doesn't really seem to care if he answered truthfully or not. Because lying to congress supports transparency much in the same way that Obama does. Maybe at some point Clapper will become too much of a liability and get tossed aside...

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/304697-wyden-wants-investigation-into-clappers-testimony-on-nsa-surveillance

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) on Tuesday called for public hearings to investigate the scope of the National Security Agency’s electronic surveillance of Americans, questioning if Director of National Intelligence James Clapper had provided “straight answers” to lawmakers about the programs.

[The Feral Slasher]

No it's just a humorous reply when someone posts an overlong post (or in this case article) ... more likely to be directly at me

Ha ha - it was directed at me because it is laughable of me to expect transparency from my government.

[Moonlight J]

When Glenn Greenwald does a Google search, he is doing “collection directly from the servers” of Google. Does that mean he also has full access to roam through other people’s private Gmail accounts and pull anything down he wants? Of course not. The slide simply does not claim what Greenwald thinks it claims; thus, so far, there is no contradiction between the NSA says and what the companies say. The contradiction is only between what Glenn Greenwald says the NSA says, and what the companies say.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/174816...#ixzz2WEBPNvK7

Yet another well-worded critique of Greenwald's piece

[Moonlight J]

This is fucking stupid. No way you actually believe this garbage.

Please tell me what to think. Clearly I'm too stupid to do it myself

[johnnya24]

[/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.thenation.com/blog/174816...#ixzz2WEBPNvK7

Yet another well-worded critique of Greenwald's piece

You're being more than a little disingenuous here MJ. You are listening to all these people with no security clearance, no access to top secret data, as if they KNOW facts that none of the rest of have seen. They supposedly KNOW Greenwald and Snowden are liars, and yet they provide no evidence to back up their claims. They supposedly KNOW that Greenwald has misinterpreted or misunderstood XYZ (despite the fact that he's seen a helluva lot more data than we have), that Snowden has basically given away his life in order to deliberately mislead everyone.

That does not make ANY sense ... not a single piece of sense. Snowden was so upset at what he saw on a daily basis that he decided to give away his life (he saw what they did to Bradley Manning) ... how can you seriously think he's doing all this malevolently? Every measure he took prior to these revelations shows that he knew this would turn into a nightmare for him. It just doesn't compute. I seriously do not have a clue how you guys look at yourselves in the mirror after spending all day kidding yourselves. I'm convinced it's self-conscious ... you have to know that you are bullshitting yourselves.

At least try and muster a balanced opinion. I would sooner listen to the guys taking the huge risks, armed with evidence to back up their claims, with little personal gain, over a bunch of loud mouth bloggers hiding behind a desk spewing that they KNOW this and the KNOW that ... when they really KNOW fuck all.

"Oh look, Edward Snowden doesn't have a college degree ... he's a pathetic wannabe fame hunter ... he's a desperate fantasist ... drop out loser! ... couldn't hack it!. Don't listen to him people ... he couldn't even get into the Special Services!"

"Instead ... listen to me, I have a blog!"

It doesn't matter where you look in this case ... the prior statements of the politicians and the Agency representatives, the responses of these people since the story broke, the administration's statements ... everywhere content is backing up the revelations ... and yet people who do not want to believe it will still ignore it, bracket it off into some like denial friendly corner of their minds, and hop on the rants of some blogger ... in fact anyone who happens to share their worldview. Evidence be damned. Consistency be damned. Just give me the narrative that makes my world make sense.

You're seeing and finding only what you want to see and find. I think you know that's what you are doing.

[Moonlight J]

Yes, I'm looking for informed pieces by people a hell of a lot smarter than me with the knowledge of the technology involved.

If Greenwald has so much as his disposal, it should not be this hard to defend his position. MANY people continue to show the soft underbelly of his argument and he continues to avoid refuting it properly.

[Moonlight J]

His job is to write rock solid factual pieces without reproach. Several well-educated people have found holes in his argument that he, to date, has not sufficiently addressed.

Continue obsessing about this - I have money to make with more enjoyable issues like figuring out why Hellickson is pitching so shitty. Maybe the NSA hates the Rays & hacked their system and sent their scouting reports to everyone else.

[johnnya24]

He doesn't have a tech blog, but he should have been the president of the USA. I guess he knows nothing either?

Al Gore: NSA's secret surveillance program 'not really the American way'

In his most expansive comments to date on the NSA revelations, the former vice-president was unsparing in his criticism of the surveillance apparatus, telling the Guardian security considerations should never overwhelm the basic rights of American citizens.

He also urged Barack Obama and Congress to review and amend the laws under which the NSA operated.

"I quite understand the viewpoint that many have expressed that they are fine with it and they just want to be safe but that is not really the American way," Gore said in a telephone interview. "Benjamin Franklin famously wrote that those who would give up essential liberty to try to gain some temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

...

Unlike other leading Democrats and his former allies, Gore said he was not persuaded by the argument that the NSA surveillance had operated within the boundaries of the law.

"This in my view violates the constitution. The fourth amendment and the first amendment – and the fourth amendment language is crystal clear," he said. "It is not acceptable to have a secret interpretation of a law that goes far beyond any reasonable reading of either the law or the constitution and then classify as top secret what the actual law is."

Gore added: "This is not right."

[The Feral Slasher]

His job is to write rock solid factual pieces without reproach. Several well-educated people have found holes in his argument that he, to date, has not sufficiently addressed.

Continue obsessing about this - I have money to make with more enjoyable issues like figuring out why Hellickson is pitching so shitty. Maybe the NSA hates the Rays & hacked their system and sent their scouting reports to everyone else.

Your keen insight will be sorely missed. You know that if people didn't obsess about shit like this Americans would have no rights. Good night.

[bryanbutler]

Serious question - we've had congressmen, Senators, and former NSA employees all warning us that we should be concerned, yet you obviously think there is nothing to worry about.

not that A's needs my help defending himself, but he does not "obviously think there is nothing to worry about." read his previous posts - he has clearly stated there is plenty to worry about. as all of the rest of us have.

[Judge Jude]

I am not criticizing anyone in a very enlightening debate. And I still wish I had more to offer.

I respect the ACLU, as well, and this post:

"The ACLU has filed a lawsuit challenging this amazing, overreaching, and anything-but-targeted domestic surveillance of American citizens. Thank god there are still organizations like the ACLU out there."

I still think that way more people here want the truth - whatever it is, and whomever benefits - than those who post on those awful political echo chamber websites..

[JudeBaldo]

Good article. I hope that the credentials and thoroughness of a writer like Kurt Eichenwald will help quell the hysteria.

Yeah it is.

To echo BB's post in response to FS, I most definitely care about privacy rights. But I'm not going to get on my soapbox and parrot what Greenwald or Snowden have to say simply because our desires may overlap.

I'm going to figure things out for myself.

[The Feral Slasher]

not that A's needs my help defending himself, but he does not "obviously think there is nothing to worry about." read his previous posts - he has clearly stated there is plenty to worry about. as all of the rest of us have.

Then why the focus on "quelling the hysteria" rather than demanding transparency ? Why nit pick the details of every persons interpretation of what is going on rather than focusing on getting answers and accountability from the only group that can give us accurate answers ? This was an issue long before Snowden and Greenwald sprung this. That is just my impression, if you and he are strongly expressing a viewpoint that our government needs to provide answers then I guess I missed it or have poor reading comprehension, that is certainly possible.