Legal vs Ethical

[Steve]

If the man says he pays he pays. We have no reason to doubt him. Yet you know in our society not reporting tips has become the norm so much so that you find it hard to trust GITH's answer. That seems to me to be the point of his original post. I have no reason to think he is lying and I believe him.

Speaking of lying. It seems many people in everyday life have no problem telling the "little white lie" if it makes things easier for them (this has not much to do about political posts or politics). It is not against the law, but it is unethical. Quite a few years ago some Christian brothers and I had a challenge to remove all lies out of our lives. I thought it would be a piece of cake. That was until I really really did it without exception. I was shocked at how difficult it was. I thought they were not big things as much lies of convenience. Still lies. I really needed God's help in overcoming it.

If someone's wife says "Do these pants make my butt look big?", it's okay to lie then, right?

[JudeBaldo]

If someone's wife says "Do these pants make my butt look big?", it's okay to lie then, right?

That's actually the 11th Commandment.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Oh I don't doubt that there are forms and such in the gambling business for reporting tips. That you've reported every cent on every tip you've gotten i bet is 100% horse****.

The only tips I have not reported were those I made as a waiter when I worked at Farrells part time when I was 19-20 and I only didn't report them because I wasn't required to file a tax return any of those years. Had I filed I would have guesstimated the amount and might have come in short--but not because I wanted to hide anything, but because I truly couldn't accurately remember.

But I Walk the Walk I Talk, in fact though I might not like you--I'd be the first one in your corner should you really need someone and if you think I'm this angry, petty man some of our conservative brethren in here seem to believe I am--I'd suggest talking tot he people in here who've actually met me like Hammer, DQ, Fresno and Jason. Arrogant, yes. A braggart, at times. Overly sensitive, absolutely.

But a liar--Never.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Doig's attitude is not that uncommon. You will meet liberals who donate to the government like I donate to my church.

BTW, donations to the government are fully deductable.

J

I don't itemize,

[GwynnInTheHall]

Also, why is it when we start (or when I start) talking ethics someone questions my integrity to derail the conversation?

[Bob Kohm]

But I Walk the Walk I Talk, in fact though I might not like you--I'd be the first one in your corner should you really need someone and if you think I'm this angry, petty man some of our conservative brethren in here seem to believe I am--I'd suggest talking tot he people in here who've actually met me like Hammer, DQ, Fresno and Jason. Arrogant, yes. A braggart, at times. Overly sensitive, absolutely.

But a liar--Never.

I'll drink to that. Doig is a pain in the balls at times (and by "at times" I mean with all affection that I suppose if we managed to duck out of the space-time continuum he might not be a pain in the balls ) but he's a hell of a guy and as honest as anyone I've met. Except when he's playing poker. Then the SOB can bluff the pants off of a nun.

[Fresno Bob]

The only tips I have not reported were those I made as a waiter when I worked at Farrells part time when I was 19-20 and I only didn't report them because I wasn't required to file a tax return any of those years. Had I filed I would have guesstimated the amount and might have come in short--but not because I wanted to hide anything, but because I truly couldn't accurately remember.

But I Walk the Walk I Talk, in fact though I might not like you--I'd be the first one in your corner should you really need someone and if you think I'm this angry, petty man some of our conservative brethren in here seem to believe I am--I'd suggest talking tot he people in here who've actually met me like Hammer, DQ, Fresno and Jason. Arrogant, yes. A braggart, at times. Overly sensitive, absolutely.

But a liar--Never.

He lies!

The man works in the most highly surveilled industry in the world, one where the management is terrified of customer/employee collusion. Are poker tips generally not pooled?

[chancellor]

But a liar--Never.

As long as it doesn't involve an SUV, I believe you.

[Don Quixote]

Actually our tips are reported for us in a tip compliance form we sign upon being hired, they are paid out in our paychecks and taxed in totality. There once was a day when you got to walk "Cash in Hand" but those days vanished when corporations took over the gaming industry. You can be fired for taking a cash tip without reporting it and surveillance looks for those things as do supervisors, who coincidentally--can't take tips period.

I've been asked for and provided tax advice for many dealers and supervisors at the casino closest to where I live, and it's exactly as GITH says--heavily monitored, too. Tips go in a specific receptacle, which is under the supervision of the security personnel, then added and spread among all the dealers in the "pit" for a given shift. It's taxed like any other earned income. Supervisory personnel don't share in the tips, either.

[Don Quixote]

If someone's wife says "Do these pants make my butt look big?", it's okay to lie then, right?

That's not a question of law or ethics. It's about human survival.

[Don Quixote]

He lies!

The man works in the most highly surveilled industry in the world, one where the management is terrified of customer/employee collusion. Are poker tips generally not pooled?

I can't speak for poker dealers, but those of dealers who deal craps, blackjack, Pai Gow, or baccarat (to name some table games) are pooled for the dealers in a given shift and generally allocated based on hours worked. It may screw some of the better and/or more pleasant and/or attractive dealers, but it does encourage cooperation among the group--and when you observe some of the sh** they sometimes have to put up with in the course of a shift, they need to be working together for something.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Srry, but I've been spending my last weekend in Vegas with my girls.

To be specific, poker dealer tips are not pooled in live, but are pooled in tournaments. Most poker dealers (including myself) keep a daily log of what tables you deal (the number of the table), the time and whether it was live or tourney. This is done for our own protection as payroll sometimes shorts us on checks. We also sign a down slip for toruneys (if you've played any significant tournament you'll see dealers do this it is a double check for getting paid your share of the tourney tokes and in live games we clock in at each table so they know where we are and what we're dealing at all times. At the end of the day we take our tips to the cashier where they are counted twice and recorded, which again--is why you need to take accurate records so your numbers match the reported numbers of the casino your'e working for.

now I'm sure there are little local card rooms that don't have all these regulations, but I've only ever worked in big casinos or tribal casinos where if you can imagine, the paperwork is even greater.

Now have I ever NOT reported a toke I got from dealing? It's possible, but I didn't knowingly misrepresent my earnings.

I'm a weird duck, I return overages I get in change from places I go (should I notice them) even if it's 3 cents. I don't want money I haven't earned. I've given my last dollar (actual last dollar) to a friend who needed it.

Money has no value beyond it's necessity to me. So I pay the taxes I'm asked to, without trying to avoid doing so. It never even occurs to me to try and do so.

Well i'm off to enjoy my last day with my girls before leaving for San Diego and as I do i'll be instilling them with the same values I hold dear.

People are more important than possession. Happiness is more important that wealth. and honesty is the most important value you can embrace.

[Hornsby]

Srry, but I've been spending my last weekend in Vegas with my girls.

To be specific, poker dealer tips are not pooled in live, but are pooled in tournaments. Most poker dealers (including myself) keep a daily log of what tables you deal (the number of the table), the time and whether it was live or tourney. This is done for our own protection as payroll sometimes shorts us on checks. We also sign a down slip for toruneys (if you've played any significant tournament you'll see dealers do this it is a double check for getting paid your share of the tourney tokes and in live games we clock in at each table so they know where we are and what we're dealing at all times. At the end of the day we take our tips to the cashier where they are counted twice and recorded, which again--is why you need to take accurate records so your numbers match the reported numbers of the casino your'e working for.

now I'm sure there are little local card rooms that don't have all these regulations, but I've only ever worked in big casinos or tribal casinos where if you can imagine, the paperwork is even greater.

Now have I ever NOT reported a toke I got from dealing? It's possible, but I didn't knowingly misrepresent my earnings.

I'm a weird duck, I return overages I get in change from places I go (should I notice them) even if it's 3 cents. I don't want money I haven't earned. I've given my last dollar (actual last dollar) to a friend who needed it.

Money has no value beyond it's necessity to me. So I pay the taxes I'm asked to, without trying to avoid doing so. It never even occurs to me to try and do so.

Well i'm off to enjoy my last day with my girls before leaving for San Diego and as I do i'll be instilling them with the same values I hold dear.

People are more important than possession. Happiness is more important that wealth. and honesty is the most important value you can embrace.

Amen brother, Amen....