Legal vs Ethical

[GwynnInTheHall]

Not necessarily. But your point about taxes is a pretty bad one. Why is your definition of what a person to pay in taxes any more ethical than a rich person who's paying a tax load in the low 20 percent of their income?

No Taxes is this point were talking between you and I, but it applies to many other things we accept as "OK". You beef is that the current tax code is "unfair" and so it's ok to get around it if you can. My point is that they don't respect "the spirit of the Law" and thus are acting unethically.

[onejayhawk]

That's just it--Legal dodging of taxes does harm others.

Many disagree. The consider it avoiding of an unfair burden. If the general populous could be depended on to donate sufficient funds, there would be no need for taxes, or the IRS.

In any event, it is a general harm, born by all, no a harm to a specific person.

J

[Roto Rooter]

Who the hell would want to pay more for something than they need to? Whether it be taxes or a cup of coffee everyone wants the best deal possible.

I'm sure GITH reports all his cash tips to the government.

[TranaGreg]

Not necessarily. But your point about taxes is a pretty bad one. Why is your definition of what a person to pay in taxes any more ethical than a rich person who's paying a tax load in the low 20 percent of their income?

I think it's a good example, as it doesn't matter that everyone has the same definition (obviously they won't) ... what matters is that they actually consider whether it's ethical or not, and not abscond that responsibility because it's allowed according to an arbitrary set of rules.

[TranaGreg]

Who the hell would want to pay more for something than they need to? Whether it be taxes or a cup of coffee everyone wants the best deal possible.

I'm sure GITH reports all his cash tips to the government.

ever tip anyone?

[Fresno Bob]

Many disagree. The consider it avoiding of an unfair burden. If the general populous could be depended on to donate sufficient funds, there would be no need for taxes, or the IRS.

In any event, it is a general harm, born by all, no a harm to a specific person.

J

It is both unfair and unethical to rig the game, period, and that's what has been done. The rich overly benefit from living in a country governed by the rule of law, with private property rights, and a legal system that benefits the wealthy, while shirking responsibilities like military service that is overwhelming borne by the children of the poor. Shouldn't you, grocery boy, pay more in taxes than that grunt you are feeding from your nice airconditioned green zone warehouse. Shouldn't the guy that owns the warehouse, and soaking the government with a sweet "cost+" contract pay more than you?

"No general harm" is the 2012 version of "let them eat cake"....and the GOP loves their cake

[Roto Rooter]

ever tip anyone?

I tip well and have worked for tips in my past. Never claimed any of it. I'm not the one crying about tax ethics. If he's not reporting his tips well pot meet kettle.

[heyelander]

if the player chooses to act unethically (based on my personal idea of right & wrong), I choose to hate them, regardless of what the rules of the game state.
Let's try a baseball analogy. I can't help but think of arod, doing things like yelling "I got it" as he rounds third to distract a 3rd baseman, or trying to knock the ball out of the first baseman's glove ... I don't care what the rules say, I simply don't like those things & think they're unsportsmanlike & wrong, and I won't wait for an official determination.

Many people will take the position that if it's legal it must be okay. I think that's passing the buck.

What's a hard slide? Running into the catcher? Stealing signs? Some okay to you and some cheap? Do you assume everyone agrees with you on which is which? I think there is a tax-code. If a person follows it, then that's all that I can expect them to pay. GITH says he pays all the taxes he is asked to, I believe if someone works within the tax code and pays the least it expects them to pay then they too have paid what is expected of them. As RR said, who wants to pay more for something than they need to?

All that said, I agree with most everyone that there needs to be an overhaul. I don't think Mitt's tax returns would tell me much about him, but I think they would be a nice indictment of the tax system.

[chancellor]

No Taxes is this point were talking between you and I, but it applies to many other things we accept as "OK".

Oh, I'm with you in concept. I just thought your example was a bad one.

You beef is that the current tax code is "unfair" and so it's ok to get around it if you can.

Nope. Never said that. Ever.

My point is that they don't respect "the spirit of the Law" and thus are acting unethically.

There are a small percentage of the uber-rich who do this through Isle of Man and such movement of money and the like. However, I believe - and believe tax receipts prove - that the vast majority of the uber-rich pay correctly on income, which is vastly at the capital gains rate.

Now, if your point is the cap gains rate is unethical...yeah, then we disagree.

[dslaw]

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. We have gun shows where you don't have to go through the background checks that stores are required to run. Someone bought a gun and then committed a crime with it. The person selling the gun had the defense of "i did everything legally" which was true. But is it right? Some 21 year old with a record signs a piece of paper saying he can legally buy the gun and no check is made and someone winds up in the hospital - something is wrong.
The dude from the Pirates runs into Molina at the plate and then gets plunked the next at bat - that's not right either but nothing is done. He is 'supposed' to be hit because he hurt Molina.
Our newest congressman promised 'no pork if you elect me.' His first budget session he kept the promise and everyone in the district got mad at him because he didn't bring home any projects. The 2nd session he made sure to add projects or else he probably would have lost his re-election. A pretty blatant lie but no one cares because he is a politician and politicians lie and everyone else gets pork so we need some too.
Bonds sees Sosa & McGwire using and getting great stats and attention so he starts using. The 'everyone else is doing it' defense certainly doesn't make it ethical but is used as self-defense mechanism to justify unethical behavior.

So yes, I do think the ethical line has been blurred. Many people do what is legal and don't care about if they hurt or who they hurt because "it was legal" or "everyone else does it" or "that is the way the game is played."

[Lurker765]

Having a mining company that produces great profits and then distributes those profits out. Then when time to close the mine arrives the company declares bankruptcy and has insufficient money to cover the costs of cleanup leaving it to the government.

Legal yes. Ethical?

Or "too big to fail" and leaving the costs of cleanup to the government?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Who the hell would want to pay more for something than they need to? Whether it be taxes or a cup of coffee everyone wants the best deal possible.

I'm sure GITH reports all his cash tips to the government.

Actually our tips are reported for us in a tip compliance form we sign upon being hired, they are paid out in our paychecks and taxed in totality. There once was a day when you got to walk "Cash in Hand" but those days vanished when corporations took over the gaming industry. You can be fired for taking a cash tip without reporting it and surveillance looks for those things as do supervisors, who coincidentally--can't take tips period.

Oh and **** you for questioning my integrity, which I'll put up against anyone in this forum.

Thank you for playing asswipe.

[Roto Rooter]

Oh I don't doubt that there are forms and such in the gambling business for reporting tips. That you've reported every cent on every tip you've gotten i bet is 100% horse****.

[onejayhawk]

Who the hell would want to pay more for something than they need to? Whether it be taxes or a cup of coffee everyone wants the best deal possible.

I'm sure GITH reports all his cash tips to the government.

Doig's attitude is not that uncommon. You will meet liberals who donate to the government like I donate to my church.

BTW, donations to the government are fully deductable.

J

[Gregg]

Oh I don't doubt that there are forms and such in the gambling business for reporting tips. That you've reported every cent on every tip you've gotten i bet is 100% horse****.

If the man says he pays he pays. We have no reason to doubt him. Yet you know in our society not reporting tips has become the norm so much so that you find it hard to trust GITH's answer. That seems to me to be the point of his original post. I have no reason to think he is lying and I believe him.

Speaking of lying. It seems many people in everyday life have no problem telling the "little white lie" if it makes things easier for them (this has not much to do about political posts or politics). It is not against the law, but it is unethical. Quite a few years ago some Christian brothers and I had a challenge to remove all lies out of our lives. I thought it would be a piece of cake. That was until I really really did it without exception. I was shocked at how difficult it was. I thought they were not big things as much lies of convenience. Still lies. I really needed God's help in overcoming it.