Unions under Attack...

[B-Fly]

They're talking about kindergarten, not pre-kindergarten - this is in Parsippany-Troy Hills. The local pre-schools and private schools are all salivating at the chance to make some extra bucks.

From the articles I found when I ran a search, it appears the constitutional mandate for free public schooling for students age 5 to 18 has been interpreted as the first school year after the child turns five, which is first grade, so kindergarten is not constitutionally mandated in NJ. That said, I think eliminating free full-day kindergarten is a terrible choice pedagogically and socially. It will dramatically increase the early grade achievement gap between rich and poor.

[Lurker765]

Free full-day kindergarten is already eliminated in some states. Half day kindergarten is free, but you pay some for full day in some states I know of.

[Judge Jude]

"pedagogically"

pedagogue or pedagog (ˈpɛdəˌɡɒɡ) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n
1. a teacher or educator
2. a pedantic or dogmatic teacher

[C14: from Latin paedagōgus, from Greek paidagōgos slave who looked after his master's son, from pais boy + agōgos leader]

...................

Funny, I had thought of "pedantic" - a word that if use it, you are it, lol

I'm still stumped on this B-Fly one, though...

[Bob Kohm]

The plaque set in the wall of the building where Triangle once stood was always something that gave pause as it was near where many of the bars I used to frequent in the Village were. Triangle was one of the things that got me involved in the union movement in my early 20s.

[Lucky]

The plaque set in the wall of the building where Triangle once stood was always something that gave pause as it was near where many of the bars I used to frequent in the Village were. Triangle was one of the things that got me involved in the union movement in my early 20s.

You were in your early 20s in 1911?

[Bob Kohm]

You were in your early 20s in 1911?

I am an old, old man. Or at least feel that way some mornings

[Lucky]

I am an old, old man. Or at least feel that way some mornings

I understand. I feel 206 this morning.

[PaleoMan]

Collect your own dues. This is pure genius. The entire country should be built upon the concept of voluntarism.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/118775974.html

State workers began paying more for benefits starting Sunday, Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch said Monday in a conference call with reporters. They also no longer are being billed for union dues, and those changes will show up on checks issued April 21, he said.

Now the real kicker will be when the union employees see their checks without the dues being taken out.

[Lucky]

You cannot build a country upon the concept of volunteerism. People won't volunteer for the really hard stuff.

Once the country is built and everything is in place, it's a different matter. People don't want to pay property taxes because they no longer have kids in school. People don't want a new sales tax to pay for a needed highway project. Nobody wants to pick up the check anymore.

At this time, more than any I can recall in my life, people who have become prosperous do not feel in any way indebted to the country or the society which made their success possible. They don't want to pay for roads and schools and law enforcement, because they don't need those services anymore.

A lot of companies have gone to other countries to get labor. They all say they can't afford to build their product in the U.S. because of labor costs. But, show me a company that had to move overseas because they were losing money. For every one you can show me, I'll show you ten that moved overseas just to make more money. It's not illegal. But it's not patriotic, either. It's an ethos I have a hard time with...get ahead, then forget about the people and institutions that made it possible to get ahead.

Corporate taxes too high? What did GE pay last year? Was it impossible for them to make a profit without moving operations overseas?

If not for Unions, other countries would be coming here to find cheap labor, and the middle class wouldn't exist.

[onejayhawk]

You cannot build a country upon the concept of volunteerism. People won't volunteer for the really hard stuff.

Once the country is built and everything is in place, it's a different matter. People don't want to pay property taxes because they no longer have kids in school. People don't want a new sales tax to pay for a needed highway project. Nobody wants to pick up the check anymore.

At this time, more than any I can recall in my life, people who have become prosperous do not feel in any way indebted to the country or the society which made their success possible. They don't want to pay for roads and schools and law enforcement, because they don't need those services anymore.

A lot of companies have gone to other countries to get labor. They all say they can't afford to build their product in the U.S. because of labor costs. But, show me a company that had to move overseas because they were losing money. For every one you can show me, I'll show you ten that moved overseas just to make more money. It's not illegal. But it's not patriotic, either. It's an ethos I have a hard time with...get ahead, then forget about the people and institutions that made it possible to get ahead.

Corporate taxes too high? What did GE pay last year? Was it impossible for them to make a profit without moving operations overseas?

If not for Unions, other countries would be coming here to find cheap labor, and the middle class wouldn't exist.

I have to challange you on this one. Unions have an enormous place in our work history. However, as a steward, I have to admit they have also been their own worst enemy at points. Noted Union busters like Andrew Carnegie were easily as important. They really successful industiralists of the 19th century understood that they needed a work force that actually worked. That does not take into account the massive impact of American invention during the late 19th and 20th centuries.

J

[Lucky]

I have to challange you on this one. Unions have an enormous place in our work history. However, as a steward, I have to admit they have also been their own worst enemy at points. Noted Union busters like Andrew Carnegie were easily as important. They really successful industiralists of the 19th century understood that they needed a work force that actually worked. That does not take into account the massive impact of American invention during the late 19th and 20th centuries.

J

I had no idea you were a union member. I'm IBEW, Local 436. What's your home local?

You say you have to challenge my assertion that without unions the middle class wouldn't exist, then you don't. You say unions have been their worst enemy, but you don't provide an example. I'll agree that every organization has good and bad, including unions, but that doesn't negate the point in question. You say that Andrew Carnegie was "easily as important". I would argue otherwise, but there is no need to, because I'm happy to agree that numerous factors contributed to the establishment of our middle class. Unions, however, were essential...as in wouldn't have happened without them. But as a shop steward you should know this.

[onejayhawk]

I had no idea you were a union member. I'm IBEW, Local 436. What's your home local?

You say you have to challenge my assertion that without unions the middle class wouldn't exist, then you don't. You say unions have been their worst enemy, but you don't provide an example. I'll agree that every organization has good and bad, including unions, but that doesn't negate the point in question. You say that Andrew Carnegie was "easily as important". I would argue otherwise, but there is no need to, because I'm happy to agree that numerous factors contributed to the establishment of our middle class. Unions, however, were essential...as in wouldn't have happened without them. But as a shop steward you should know this.

15 year Steward of AFGE Local #4042.

I was specifically challenging that the US would be a source of cheap labor to the rest of the world.

As to the existence of a middle class, be serious. It is made possible by three things principly: Education, Commerce and Entrepeneurship. Partly because of Carnegie and the like, US heavy industry provided the base for the economy. However, there would always have been a middle class of shop keepers, sales people, small business owners and professionals. What Unions did was establish minimum standards for employers.

The Triangle fire was like the Berkley bombing, ie the most visible flash point. It was also, in both cases, a clear sign that the momentum was moving the other direction.

J

[frae]

Now the real kicker will be when the union employees see their checks without the dues being taken out.

Man that $25 a check that goes to my union is definitely the thing holding me back from paying back my college loans, paying off my car, and paying off my houses mortage. Anyway back to leaving this thread alone.

[chancellor]

Man that $25 a check that goes to my union is definitely the thing holding me back from paying back my college loans, paying off my car, and paying off my houses mortage. Anyway back to leaving this thread alone.

While that may be true in Pennsylvania, please note that union dues for a full-time teacher in Wisconsin are $96/month. Roughly $1150/year is a significant chunk of change.

[chancellor]

The GOP response in Wisconsin to Prof. Cronon has been to file a records request for Cronon's emails and anything containing the words "Republican, Scott Walker, recall, collective bargaining, AFSCME, WEAC, rally, union, Alberta Darling, Randy Hopper, Dan Kapanke, Rob Cowles, Scott Fitzgerald, Sheila Harsdorf, Luther Olsen, Glenn Grothman, Mary Lazich, Jeff Fitzgerald, Marty Beil, or Mary Bell."

Let the smearing begin....err, continue!

This is amateur hour compared to the other side....geez, give me a break. Ann Althouse, a law professor at UW, who's blogged and vidoed extensively has not merely been attacked in the media, she's had confirmed threats of harm via both phone and email, car vandalized, and exposed one LW dingbat whose threats were indirect, but still pretty darn clear.