Arab Spring

[GwynnInTheHall]

Seeing as how Regan got so much credit for ending the Cold War, does Obama get the same kind of credit for the Arab Spring?

It my belief neither were key players in either situation, though both helped somewhat from the sidelines.

I mean, Gaddafi is gone, Mubarak is gone, Bin Laden dead, several other key Al Qaeda figure dead. If a McCain had been President during this time, Republicans would be walking around with boners so big event he crack of dawn wouldn't be safe.

I guess the question is, do those of you with conservative leanings credit Obama with facilitating any of these changes? Eliminating some of the most nefarious anti-American a-holes out there? If so, how does that weigh in your opinions of him? have they changed since before the election?

[senorsheep]

I give him huge credit. I think he's showing the way we should handle these types of bad actors in the future - solid intelligence + international cooperation + surgical strikes. And, to take a page from Wonderboy's book, I wish he'd be a little more aggressive about highlighting the success of this approach vs. Bush's overbroad "shock and awe"/ invade & occupy strategy and tactics that went awry in Iraq.

What I really wish is that he'd attempt to parlay this success into reduced and better-targeted military spending, but I don't know that he (or anybody) is willing or able to take on the military-industrial complex.

[johnnya24]

No Bin Laden and Al Qaeda can't really be associated with the Arab Spring IMO.

But Obama did scandalously get the Nobel Peace Prize for doing sweet FA, so who knows. That still really upsets me.

[DMT]

I give him huge credit. I think he's showing the way we should handle these types of bad actors in the future - solid intelligence + international cooperation + surgical strikes. And, to take a page from Wonderboy's book, I wish he'd be a little more aggressive about highlighting the success of this approach vs. Bush's overbroad "shock and awe"/ invade & occupy strategy and tactics that went awry in Iraq.

What I really wish is that he'd attempt to parlay this success into reduced and better-targeted military spending, but I don't know that he (or anybody) is willing or able to take on the military-industrial complex.

Aaaa-greed.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I give him huge credit. I think he's showing the way we should handle these types of bad actors in the future - solid intelligence + international cooperation + surgical strikes. And, to take a page from Wonderboy's book, I wish he'd be a little more aggressive about highlighting the success of this approach vs. Bush's overbroad "shock and awe"/ invade & occupy strategy and tactics that went awry in Iraq.

What I really wish is that he'd attempt to parlay this success into reduced and better-targeted military spending, but I don't know that he (or anybody) is willing or able to take on the military-industrial complex.

From what i'm reading, the military is steering toward smaller numbers, but more reliance on advanced techs. They have the remote drones, remote planes, Tac vehicles, even ecto skeletons for soldiers that increase their performance abilities. So while it looks like the manpower they'll need to accomplish what you envision can indeed be reduced, for the time being, the funding for these new techs isn't going to subside anytime soon.

[senorsheep]

No Bin Laden and Al Qaeda can't really be associated with the Arab Spring IMO.

True. Not directly, anyway. Depends on how much causality you assign to the relationship between foreign-supported Arab and Middle East dictators and the terrorist networks that spring up in their backyards, I suppose.

In any case, I think The Prez is doing a fine job executing The War On Terror, or whatever we're calling that effort nowadays.

[senorsheep]

From what i'm reading, the military is steering toward smaller numbers, but more reliance on advanced techs. They have the remote drones, remote planes, Tac vehicles, even ecto skeletons for soldiers that increase their performance abilities. So while it looks like the manpower they'll need to accomplish what you envision can indeed be reduced, for the time being, the funding for these new techs isn't going to subside anytime soon.

If we're spending the money more wisely now, that's a step in the right direction.

[Wonderboy]

And, to take a page from Wonderboy's book, I wish he'd be a little more aggressive about highlighting the success of this approach vs. Bush's overbroad "shock and awe"/ invade & occupy strategy and tactics that went awry in Iraq.

Hey, if it were up to me, he'd answer every question at any press conference by saying, "I haven't gotten around to that yet -- I was too busy killing Bin Laden and the other Al Qaeda leaders."

[Wonderboy]

Then a long pause, and add "With my bare hands."

[The Feral Slasher]

Hey, if it were up to me, he'd answer every question at any press conference by saying, "I haven't gotten around to that yet -- I was too busy killing Bin Laden and the other Al Qaeda leaders."

That's great Mr. President, maybe you ought to spend a little time figuring out why U-6 unemployment rate is 16% and 46 million Americans are living in poverty. So after you get done beating your chest, perhaps you can spend a little time thinking whether 1 trillion dollars a year is really a reasonable amount of money to spend "defending" our country.

[johnnya24]

That's great Mr. President, maybe you ought to spend a little time figuring out why U-6 unemployment rate is 16% and 46 million Americans are living in poverty. So after you get done beating your chest, perhaps you can spend a little time thinking whether 1 trillion dollars a year is really a reasonable amount of money to spend "defending" our country.

That kinda talk is just gonna get you in trouble round here ... don't you know the healing process is still going on.

... and unemployment ... meh ... non-issue ... every good patriotic American knows that unemployment can be solved if those lazy good for nothings just get off their arses and giiit errr jaaaab.

Is Obama the only Nobel Laureate with his own concentration camp?

[GwynnInTheHall]

That kinda talk is just gonna get you in trouble round here ... don't you know the healing process is still going on.

... and unemployment ... meh ... non-issue ... every good patriotic American knows that unemployment can be solved if those lazy good for nothings just get off their arses and giiit errr jaaaab.

Is Obama the only Nobel Laureate with his own concentration camp?

they're all issues, just trying to talk about one of them.

[johnnya24]

they're all issues, just trying to talk about one of them.

I think you pretty much answered it. The west played a very small part in the general Arab Spring ... the underlying conditions had been building up for decades ... and the fact they were not involved will hopefully give it more legitimacy going forward. However, they certainly played a major role with regards the specific case of Libya. The British and French averaged 150 sorties per day, or which more that 30% involved strikes ... despite that it still took 9/10 months ... in other words, no airstrikes, no revolution.

Democracy doesn't root easily in counties with (a) no tradition of democracy and (b) a fragile economic climate. It's almost a bad fit, history shows that clearly. No matter how great the ideal of democratic freedom seems in the midst of revolutionary verve, it never lives up to the fantasy we try to sell. The hard yards are ahead if the Arab Spring is to mean anything long term. Look at Pakistan ... get rid of Musharaf, ally with the West against their neighbor ... and now they are looking down the barrel of civil war ... and they have nukes.

I wonder if history classes will look back on the first decade of the 21st century as the prelude to something massive in the same way the first decade of the 20th century's set the basis for the Great War and ipso facto WW2?

[nots]

That's great Mr. President, maybe you ought to spend a little time figuring out why U-6 unemployment rate is 16% and 46 million Americans are living in poverty. So after you get done beating your chest, perhaps you can spend a little time thinking whether 1 trillion dollars a year is really a reasonable amount of money to spend "defending" our country.

Hey, I will freely admit I was against this action. I am against us dropping bombs in Somalia, Uganda and anywhere else we're currently dropping them. I am against our troop escalation in Afghanistan. I am against the $2B/week we're spending there. I am against the continued shadowy situation at GITMO. I say all that to say--the President deserves a lot of credit for the end result here in Libya. People that can't or won't admit that trouble me.
I will admit I also threw up in my mouth when I heard Sen Graham talk about rebuilding Libya. How about we spend our $ to rebuild here instead.

[onejayhawk]

Seeing as how Regan got so much credit for ending the Cold War, does George W Bush get the same kind of credit for the Arab Spring?

How about this?

Liberating Iraq has only started to pay dividends.

J