Bills you'd actually like to see Congress debate

[Kevin Seitzer]

Geez, guys, i'm not talking about refusing to sell immigrants anything or leaving them to starve in the bushes when their coyotes steal their money and leave them for the buzzards. i'm talking about something like a simple sales tax, a few cents on the dollar. They already have access to ER treatment, school, free lunches, etc. If they manage to get across the border and give birth, their child becomes a citizen automatically, which helps them become legal here. There are a number of state and federal things available even to illegals (or at least their children), but they only pay into the state stuff with a Texas sales tax. i'm not sure how the other border states do their stuff. Illegals in Texas (and everywhere else as far as i know) do not pay any federal stuff at all right now. How is this mistreatment?

Why is it okay for illegal immigrants to get paid in cash for their work and then not pay anything into social security or federal taxes? Granted, the people who hire them get busted from time to time, but not enought to keep it from happening. At least in Texas everyone is forced to pay something with a sales tax that goes for state stuff. But illegals get away scot-free on federal stuff.

It seems there is insinuation that i have no compassion for the alien, but i do. We're just getting started with a mission in Laredo; i got back 4 weeks ago from doing mission work in three barrios down there. We're certainly busting our butts to abide by Leviticus 19! i never saw a home that didn't have food, but water is a problem, so our mission pastor brings a water truck to the homes that need it, for free, and there's no obligation to go to the church or hear a sermon. Their biggest problems down there are unfair slumlords (nothing we can do about that), not speaking English (which many want to learn, so we try to help with that), and drug thugs who use children (so we try to convert the thugs since shooting them is both unbiblical and illegal). We know a sizeable number of these people in the barrios are illegal and are fairly transient (they move up to Houston, San Antonio, etc.)--several apparently only living there for a few months or so. Money managment is another problem they need help with. It's frustrating to find a run-down mobile home without windows, no running water and a naked 2 year old running around--but a fairly nice car with expensive rims, or another home with a huge big screen tv and xbox 360--but no running water and an outhouse. i hate to say it, but that kind of scene was more common than i thought it would be. Nevertheless, the churches down there that i know about are doing what they can, and we have sent groups down there (as well as financial support for mission churches) in support.

What I don't get is how you take from that that the top priority for helping these people is to stigmatize them at the cash register of their local grocery store and levy some additional taxes on them rather than taking away that they need good local water systems and the slumlords who are running those colonias, and purposefully exploiting these people from what I understand, ought to be brought to justice. Why aren't those your priorities for Congress? Why the hell do you think these poor people need more taxes as the main solution to the issue? Could you tell them that to their faces as their brother?

And by the way, illegal immigrants do pay social security taxes and federal income taxes just like anyone else. They are subject to withholding just like everyone. They may provide a false social security number and thus not be able to reap the retirement benefits down the line, but you better believe they are paying in now. There are some, whether illegal or not, American citizen or immigrant, who mainly do cash work on odd jobs and can thus avoid the taxation system, but that's no way to support a family. The vast majority of illegal immigrants that I have known have ended up putting a lot of money into the federal tax system.

Moreover, mostly what I have seen when illegals have worked in a cash-only system, that it is used by their employers to extort and exploit them. Often they don't get the wages they have earned, or they are mistreated in other ways. Why doesn't that injustice bother you far more than the few cents on the dollar that they may be taking out of your pocket?

On the whole, I've seen illegal immigrants do far more than their fair share of shouldering the burden of society. It doesn't bother me to see them getting to use WIC to buy milk and bread for their family, and I frankly cannot comprehend how that would trouble anyone else, especially someone who claims to follow Jesus Christ, so much that they would want a national crusade to badger such people. It's so ****ing un-Christian it makes me very angry. And I'm not insinuating. I'm calling you out clear and plain.

[onejayhawk]

A bill to legalize and tax online gambling.

A bill to legalize and tax marijuana.

Gambling is easy enough already.

Marijuana should be considered a legitimate pharmacutical herb, with appropriate taxes and quality regulation.

I would go a step further and remove all drugs from the criminal lists. Various countries have tried various approaches to legalizing drugs, but almost all of them work better than ours. Deal with addiction as a non-criminal medical issue. Make import and manufacture legal, and the level of drug related violence will plunge. It will also do good things for the prison population.

I have no problem with vastly increasing the number of resident aliens. As long as they pay taxes, let themn stay. Educate their kids. Cover them with police and fire. Let them have access to courts and medical aid. Issue them driver's licenses. However, most services will be pay as you go.

Demote the Departments of VA, Labor and Energy to agencies in DoD, HHS and Interior. Eliminate HUD and Education outright.

J

[Bob Kohm]

What bills would you actually like to see debated?

Illegal immigration: i sent a letter to my Texas reps and both senators to put a tax on illegals. It wouldn't be hard, just require every person to present a valid state ID, green card or passport. This can be enforced at any cash register, anywhere, anytime.

Balanced Budget Amendment--and not some 1000 page monstrosity, a short, to-the-point document. i have to balance my budget every month, or plan how i pay off my credit card or loan in such a way that i don't find myself underwater if disaster strikes.

Racism, internal papers and naivete in one post-- a true Trifecta!

[onejayhawk]

Racism, internal papers and naivete in one post-- a true Trifecta!

While you only managed condescension. Tough beat.

J

[regular-guy]

What I don't get is how you take from that that the top priority for helping these people is to stigmatize them at the cash register of their local grocery store and levy some additional taxes on them rather than taking away that they need good local water systems and the slumlords who are running those colonias, and purposefully exploiting these people from what I understand, ought to be brought to justice. Why aren't those your priorities for Congress? Why the hell do you think these poor people need more taxes as the main solution to the issue? Could you tell them that to their faces as their brother?

And by the way, illegal immigrants do pay social security taxes and federal income taxes just like anyone else. They are subject to withholding just like everyone. They may provide a false social security number and thus not be able to reap the retirement benefits down the line, but you better believe they are paying in now. There are some, whether illegal or not, American citizen or immigrant, who mainly do cash work on odd jobs and can thus avoid the taxation system, but that's no way to support a family. The vast majority of illegal immigrants that I have known have ended up putting a lot of money into the federal tax system.

Moreover, mostly what I have seen when illegals have worked in a cash-only system, that it is used by their employers to extort and exploit them. Often they don't get the wages they have earned, or they are mistreated in other ways. Why doesn't that injustice bother you far more than the few cents on the dollar that they may be taking out of your pocket?

On the whole, I've seen illegal immigrants do far more than their fair share of shouldering the burden of society. It doesn't bother me to see them getting to use WIC to buy milk and bread for their family, and I frankly cannot comprehend how that would trouble anyone else, especially someone who claims to follow Jesus Christ, so much that they would want a national crusade to badger such people. It's so ****ing un-Christian it makes me very angry. And I'm not insinuating. I'm calling you out clear and plain.

All right--i'm willing to admit that i haven't looked at the issue enough. Sometimes i let ideas get ahead of me. That is why i aired this idea out to guys who can vet it for me before i start sounding my mouth off where i live. i truly appreciate being able to post in here, more or less anonymously, so that i don't make a total idiot of myself. This forum has been very good for me to get perspective, because it helps me get some balance to my viewpoints. Not that i enjoy getting spanked from time to time, but nevertheless, it is good for me i suppose.

i fully admit that my understanding of illegal immigrants supporting our nation fiscally is not based in actual experience. If we know for certain that people who live illegally in our nation are paying taxes, then we certainly don't need to find a way for them to pay their fair share. Frankly, i don't know how much of what you've said is accurate, but i will definitely look into more before talking about taxing illegals any further. And since i put up that initial post, perhaps a tax is not going to be one coponent among many things that need to be done to address the difficult issue of illegal immigration.

As for the slumlords and the unfair practices of unscrupulous employers--i think i share that passion to end the injustice there. But how? We already have laws on the books for employers who hire illegals--they aren't supposed to do it. i think we'd still have an influx of illegals over here even if there were no jobs available because we have so many give aways. There has to be a way to address this, because we can't just keep feeding everyone and giving more and more. At some point, we have a breaking point ourselves and then the ones who need help are out of providers and then the providers need help.

As for the slumlords, i don't know how we can pass stiffer laws that can actually be enforced without being draconian on landlords with integrity. Perhaps someone can offer a better solution on that, frankly i don't know what to propose on that.

i guess the root of suggesting a tax on illegals was mostly prompted to slowing down the number of illegals into our nation, because i don't see steps to solving a problem. But if we have laws, we need to enforce them. i guess that is one of my frustrations, we don't enforce our laws enough. As stated before, i'm have to look into this more.

And as much as i hate to admit it--now that the racism tag has been so delicately laid on my face, i have to question if it is true. And over the last 24 hours, i'm ashamed to admit it, and it pains me to admit it. But you're right. There is something buried deep down that i haven't wanted to call xenophobic. But there is something there that has been small enough that i haven't noticed it before. This is something i need to confess to my Lord and repent from. i never thought of myself as a racist, and i've preached and taught pretty hard against it. But the fact is, now i'm aware that i'm guilty of it too. Thank you for being so blunt about it, because as hard-headed as i can be, it probably wouldn't have gotten through any other way.

[senorsheep]

1A & 1B) Term limits and balanced budget.

[Wonderboy]

1A & 1B) Term limits...

I've always said we do have term limits -- they are called elections. But I'm beginning to think this has some merit.

[senorsheep]

I've always said we do have term limits -- they are called elections. But I'm beginning to think this has some merit.

And in the case of presidents, we also have term limits - they are called term limits (see 22nd Amendment). What's wrong with having a national conversation about whether some of the same concerns and rationales that informed the passage of the 22nd Amendment might not also be applicable to members of Congress? I'm not entirely sure where I'd come down after such a debate, but I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.

[Mithrandir]

I've always said we do have term limits -- they are called elections. But I'm beginning to think this has some merit.

that's not term limits..not even close..come on now.

[Wonderboy]

And in the case of presidents, we also have term limits - they are called term limits (see 22nd Amendment). What's wrong with having a national conversation about whether some of the same concerns and rationales that informed the passage of the 22nd Amendment might not also be applicable to members of Congress? I'm not entirely sure where I'd come down after such a debate, but I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.

I'm leaning more and more your way. I see some benefit in having experienced Congressmen and two terms is just barely enough to find out where the bathrooms are. And I shutter to think what the last election would have looked like had there been a 1/3 turnover. But at some point, maybe enough is enough. I don't know where that point is -- three terms, four terms -- but agree it is a worthwhile conversation to have.

[Mithrandir]

And in the case of presidents, we also have term limits - they are called term limits (see 22nd Amendment). What's wrong with having a national conversation about whether some of the same concerns and rationales that informed the passage of the 22nd Amendment might not also be applicable to members of Congress? I'm not entirely sure where I'd come down after such a debate, but I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.

I know which side i am on.. No career politicians. Being a Congress person or Senator should not be a career. Serve and then get back to your real job.

[Mithrandir]

I'm leaning more and more your way. I see some benefit in having experienced Congressmen and two terms is just barely enough to find out where the bathrooms are. And I shutter to think what the last election would have looked like had there been a 1/3 turnover. But at some point, maybe enough is enough. I don't know where that point is -- three terms, four terms -- but agree it is a worthwhile conversation to have.

Experienced in what..using the system to benefit themsleves and their ilk? I'm sorry, but how f**king long should it take to understand what the hell your job is as a Rep or Senator? If it takes as long as you seem to think, then something's wrong with the system.

[senorsheep]

I see some benefit in having experienced Congressmen and two terms is just barely enough to find out where the bathrooms are.

This is the Bob Khom argument against term limits, and I think it lacks imagination. Maybe more Congressional turnover would actually force the body to streamline and simplify the way it operates?

[Wonderboy]

This is the Bob Khom argument against term limits, and I think it lacks imagination. Maybe more Congressional turnover would actually force the body to streamline and simplify the way it operates?

It may be unimaginative, but I think it has some merit. On the other hand, I can see a cap of three terms for Senators and four terms for Congressmen as also having merit.

But I don't see how higher turnover would streamline the process. I think it just makes it worse.

[senorsheep]

It may be unimaginative, but I think it has some merit. On the other hand, I can see a cap of three terms for Senators and four terms for Congressmen as also having merit.

But I don't see how higher turnover would streamline the process. I think it just makes it worse.

There's a running joke in computer programming circles that if you structure your code in a manner such that it is too complicated for anyone else to figure out, you can code yourself a lifetime of job security.

When you say "two terms is just barely enough to find out where the bathrooms are," I assume you mean that Congressional procedure is so laborious and arcane and convoluted that it takes years for Congressional noobs to learn how to work all the levers and switches, right? I'm suggesting that term limits might make it untenable for noobs to spend years figuring it all out, and therefore force Congress to simplify procedure so that the fresh faces are more able to hit the ground running.

I have no proof that it would work out that way, I'm just speculating.