The new COVID thread

[Bene Futuis]

Still, when I talk to an anti-vaxxer, I try to know the latest info and acknowledge whatever partial truth they may be clinging to. I hope it gives me more cred in trying to convince them to vax, but, so far, I don't think I've convinced anyone, except my MIL, who, I am sure, would have gotten vaxxed eventually anyway.

[Kevin Seitzer]

There is evidence emerging that natural immunity is up to 13 times more effective than vaccination against Delta.

I've seen conflicting studies on this. I've seen the one that I believe you are referencing, but I've seen some that show the opposite, e.g., this one:

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html

I've also seen studies that show that Pzifer loses effectiveness faster than Moderna (which uses a higher dose) or AstraZeneca (which uses the adenovirus).

[Sour Masher]

So the past couple of days interacting with Anti vaxxers and Covid deniers has been enlightening to say the least.

Hospitals get 39K if they claim a death was due to Covid...blah blah Blah...People die all the time....blah blah blah....Our immune system is more effective than any vaccine...blah blah blah...vaccinated people are dying too, so see--it doesn't matter or not if you're vaccinated.

It was like a Facebook/Instagram page had come to life and I couldn't deactivate my account to get away from it.

Honestly, I'm not sure what's worse when it comes to reinserting myself into society, the anxiety of potentially contracting Delta or having to listen/deal with all this ignorance.

There is evidence emerging that natural immunity is up to 13 times more effective than vaccination against Delta. However, those who have been vaxxed and have gotten sick are in the gold tier for immunity, and those who have been vaxxed who get sick are far, far less likely to get seriously ill. So, the vaccinations do a lot of good, even when they don't stop people from getting the virus. Still, I fear most people will get this thing at least once. Still, I'd much rather get it after being vaxxed than not.

Still, when I talk to an anti-vaxxer, I try to know the latest info and acknowledge whatever partial truth they may be clinging to. I hope it gives me more cred in trying to convince them to vax, but, so far, I don't think I've convinced anyone, except my MIL, who, I am sure, would have gotten vaxxed eventually anyway.

[revo]

So the past couple of days interacting with Anti vaxxers and Covid deniers has been enlightening to say the least.

Hospitals get 39K if they claim a death was due to Covid...blah blah Blah...People die all the time....blah blah blah....Our immune system is more effective than any vaccine...blah blah blah...vaccinated people are dying too, so see--it doesn't matter or not if you're vaccinated.

It was like a Facebook/Instagram page had come to life and I couldn't deactivate my account to get away from it.

Honestly, I'm not sure what's worse when it comes to reinserting myself into society, the anxiety of potentially contracting Delta or having to listen/deal with all this ignorance.

I love these two. Then let's just stop cancer treatments!

[GwynnInTheHall]

So the past couple of days interacting with Anti vaxxers and Covid deniers has been enlightening to say the least.

Hospitals get 39K if they claim a death was due to Covid...blah blah Blah...People die all the time....blah blah blah....Our immune system is more effective than any vaccine...blah blah blah...vaccinated people are dying too, so see--it doesn't matter or not if you're vaccinated.

It was like a Facebook/Instagram page had come to life and I couldn't deactivate my account to get away from it.

Honestly, I'm not sure what's worse when it comes to reinserting myself into society, the anxiety of potentially contracting Delta or having to listen/deal with all this ignorance.

[Bene Futuis]

The guy in the red shirt gets it.

Pow! Right in the ventilator!

[Gregg]

The guy in the red shirt gets it.

[Gregg]

Illinois Gov mandated the wearing of masks for all indoor activities starting last Monday. Vax or no vax.

[madducks]

"Demonic Entities" would be a good name for a death metal band.

[The Feral Slasher]

I like she spouts off about being a Christian then drops the F- bomb. Nice touch…

Ok, Demon !

[hacko]

(Not a thoughtful response, but rather a lazy Tweet link)

It's this kind of "anti-science" person that comes to mind for me. This lady is a nurse and appears to have adopted all three pillars of the Seitzer school of anti-science. This is the type of person I immediately thought of. This lady is supposedly an infectious disease nurse (?)(!).

I like she spouts off about being a Christian then drops the F- bomb. Nice touch…

[Bene Futuis]

[Kevin Seitzer]

I can find some positives in my first two "anti-science" pillars. I don't find much value in the third one. But turn all of them up to 11 and mix them together and you get some crazy stuff.

[Bene Futuis]

(Not a thoughtful response, but rather a lazy Tweet link)

It's this kind of "anti-science" person that comes to mind for me. This lady is a nurse and appears to have adopted all three pillars of the Seitzer school of anti-science. This is the type of person I immediately thought of. This lady is supposedly an infectious disease nurse (?)(!).

[Bene Futuis]

Let me say first of all that I think very few people in the U.S. or any Western country could truly be described as anti-science, i.e., as against the idea that doing repeatable experiments to test hypotheses is the way to learn whether some proposed explanation for an observed phenomenon is true or not. I meant something different than that when I said "anti-science", and I suspect most people do when that term is brought up in conversation. But perhaps it is a poor term to use because it is imprecise.

I can think of at least three general "anti-science" threads of thinking in America that don't necessarily entail a wholesale rejection of the scientific method, per se. They are all three somewhat related but emphasize different aspects. One thread is a general distrust of authority, mainstream media, academics, and bureaucratic elites. A small dose of this one is healthy for science but a large dose leaves you in the position of trusting no one with any recognized authority and turning to conspiracy theories instead. The second thread is distrustful of science as the sine qua non of human existence. It values history, tradition, family, emotional and spiritual experience, love, beauty, etc., and worries that excessive scientism impoverishes rather than enriches the human experience. Or perhaps it's better said that science doesn't capture the best parts of life. This isn't a denial of the benefits of germ theory, for example, as much as it is a claim that the most important things in life may exist outside the reach of science. The third thread is a collision of the other two and is best exemplified by the conflict between evolution and creation. It involves a fear that certain scientific teachings threaten core Christian teachings about the nature of God and humans and a fear that many scientists are out to discredit the Bible and undermine Christianity.

I am not aware that either of the nurses I referenced hold strongly to any of the three "scientific distrust" positions that I mentioned. It's my opinion that for them that taking the vaccine is more about tribal identity than it is about the science behind the vaccine and disease spread. I think their identity as strong conservative American patriots who stand for individual liberty is more important to their identity than is being a nurse or a scientific thinker. Probably to such an extent that they don't even view the question of taking the vaccine as a contest between science and conservatism. I imagine they have digested a fair amount of Fox News (et al) propaganda on the matter such that they think they are holding the correct scientific position on the matter. I haven't talked with either of them in person in a few years, so I'm going off what I know about them as well as recent Facebook posts about vaccine mandates for nurses.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Your idea about the three threads of anti-science, as it were, is an interesting one. I feel myself wanting to kneejerk react to this but it probably warrants more thought than I normally put into my posts, lol. Good stuff, KS, thanks.